By Allen Haynes • April 7, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Andy Stanley (00:02): Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further fast. I’m Andy, and today we’re talking about the stories we tell ourselves as leaders, stories that shape our decisions, our relationships, and ultimately our success specifically within the context of what we do for a living. And joining me to unpack this idea is my friend Michael Hyatt. He’s no stranger to most leaders. He’s a sage in the leadership space and has been for many years through his speaking and publishing and for his ability to make complex ideas, incredibly practical. And Michael, we really need you to make this one incredibly practical and real quick, and I should have mentioned this before we started, but Michael actually is the one that gave me my first opportunity to publish many years ago in a previous life. He was helping my dad and they called me up and said, Hey, we think it’s time for you to publish a book. And so Michael, I am forever grateful to you. So welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Michael Hyatt (01:02): Man. Thanks for having me. I listen to your podcast regularly, love what you’re doing for leaders. So it’s an honor to be here. Andy Stanley (01:08): Well, you have so much to offer. And just for the four of you out there who are not familiar with Michael’s work, he’s the founder and chairman of Full Focus. He’s helped scale multiple companies over the years, including a $250 million publishing company with about 700 plus employees as well as his own company. And then under his leadership, his company Full Focus has been featured in Inc. And The Ink List of fastest growing companies in America, as well as Best Places to Work, the Best Workplace List. He’s the author of several New York Times, wall Street Journal and USA today bestselling books, including your Best Year Ever, for you to focus win at work and Succeed at Life, which was extraordinary. It’s extraordinary book. So helpful as well as his most recent book that we’re going to talk about today, mind your mindset. And last but not least, in fact, maybe the most important thing I can say, Michael, you’ve been married to Gail for 45 years. Five daughters and 11 grandchildren. We only have two. I can’t imagine. 11. Wow. Michael Hyatt (02:10): We need name tags. Andy Stanley (02:12): You have your first grandchild and you love that grandchild so much. You think, well, I’ll never love another grandchild this much. And you have 11. That’s a lot of love. Michael Hyatt (02:22): It is a lot of love. And here’s the fun part, all five of my daughters live in Nashville where I live. Andy Stanley (02:27): Oh wow. Michael Hyatt (02:28): The grandkids live within five minutes of me, so all my grandkids are within a few minutes, so it’s awesome. They’re always over here and I love to stop working and just go out and play with them, talk with them. It’s a blast. Andy Stanley (02:39): Well, congratulations. That’s a win for sure. So Michael, and mind Your mindset today, by the way, through our audience, we’re only going to cover a slice of this book. This book has so many iterations. There’s so many things we could talk about. But anyway, part of the central theme or one of the central themes of the book is the stories that we tell ourselves and that the stories we tell ourselves have incredible power over us. And just that idea for our listeners, we can all immediately think of stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, some true, some not true, some distorted, some are stories other people told us about ourselves. So would you unpack that a little bit just in a general way, and then we’ll kind of drill down in terms of where this interfaces with leadership? Michael Hyatt (03:21): Yeah, I think there’s what happens to us, and then there are the stories that our brain tells us as it tries to interpret and make sense of the world. And our brains are essentially meaning making machines. So it takes the information around us, it tries to make sense of it, and most of all, it tries to keep us safe. So it’s always trying to predict, looking forward, keep us out of trouble, all that kind of stuff. But sometimes we get confused because we confuse the facts for the interpretation that we’ve laid on the facts, and that’s where we sometimes get into trouble. Andy Stanley (03:53): This is something you unpack in the book, so I want you to say that again. It’s not just the facts, it’s the way we interpret the facts. Because again, we’re all smart enough to know all you have to do is watch the news, right? It’s like far left far. Are we talking about the same thing? Right? So we’ve seen other people spin stories, but we spend our own stories. Michael Hyatt (04:13): We do, and we spin them. So much so that we come to the conclusion oftentimes that what the story is, is the truth that we’ve got absolutely the truth. I can remember when we were writing the book, and I’ve told this story before, but I grew up on a family where my dad was an alcoholic, and there was one particularly serious situation where my dad was drunk on the front lawn. Some friends took me home on a Friday night, I was with my sister. And as we got out of the car, we saw my dad who was passed out on the sidewalk. And so we picked him up and took him into the house. And it was just a very traumatic kind of experience. My sister was crying. She ran into her room (04:54): In the shadows and kind of despised him, I’m sorry to say, but when I wrote about that years ago, I thought to myself, did I make up some of that or did it really happen? I think it happened. You know how it is if you’re a fisherman, especially, the stories get bigger over time. So I had to call my sister and I said, look, before I commit this to print, I want to make sure I got the facts straight. I don’t want to mist tell this story. And so she listened to it. And thankfully in that situation, the facts were the facts, but the interpretation that I laid on, it was a totally other thing, but at least I had the facts. But that’s not always the Andy Stanley (05:30): Case. And our memories are not as good as we think they’re, in fact, there’s been multiple cases of people who have claimed to have been at an event and seen an event that they actually just saw on the news, but they’re absolutely convinced because it was so emotionally and so imprinted. So sort of back to how this relates to those of us in the workplace, in the book you talk about, we get stuck in a narrative, and if we get stuck in a narrative, ultimately it holds us back. And as I read portion of the book, I’m not going to be super transparent for a minute, I don’t want to talk about me, but I’m kind of stuck in a narrative right now. In fact, our producer who’s listening to this knows what I’m talking about. So she’s trying to help me get unstuck from a narrative. But it is amazing how we get stuck. And then when we get stuck as leaders, the people behind us get stuck because they’re trying to move forward or move in our cases, move us forward. So this is so important for leaders because if we get stuck, the people behind us kind of have to stop in some cases and they can’t move forward. So talk a little bit about how to identify these limiting stories we’re tempted to live by, if you don’t mind. Michael Hyatt (06:36): Yeah. Well, lemme start with this story. Back during the Great Recession, this was about 2009, I was the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers. At that point, our sales had fallen about 20% since the recession began, and it was very chaotic and overwhelming and difficult to try to lead through. But I had an executive coach who back in those days before Zoom, she would come in once a month, meet with me for a full day. And so she came in August of 2009, and the first thing she said was, how did last month turn out? You were confident that you were going to hit the budget. How did it turn out? And I said, we missed. And I just sighed. And she said, by how much? I said, 20%. She said, you’re kidding me. She said, when I was here, you were so confident what happened? So I said, well, and I was a little bit indignant. I was like, we’re in the middle of a session. Andy Stanley (07:28): Are you not paying attention? Michael Hyatt (07:31): I said, consumer confidence, is it an all time low? We know foot traffic of retail is not doing well. And in addition to that, we’re in the middle of this digital transition to Kendall. We’ve got social media that screwed up all of our marketing, all this stuff. So she listened patiently, she’s taken notes, and then she says to me, she said, lemme ask you a really tough question. She said, what was it about your leadership that led to these results? Now, it was really indignant. (07:59): I felt very defensive. And I said, Eileen, I just told you the problem. We’re in the middle of a recession. She said, I get that. I get that. She said, let me ask it another way. If you could go back 30 days ago and lead differently than you did for the last 30 days, would you change anything? And I said, well, yeah, absolutely. She said, well, like what? I said, well, I think I would’ve had a standup meeting with a sales team every day so that I had a better pulse on where things were trending. She said, okay, good. What else? I said, I think I would’ve gone on that Walmart sales call because I think I could have made a difference just being there, would’ve created more gravity, and I think they would’ve bought more of our stuff. And she said, okay, so what you’re saying is that it really was about your leadership. I was like, ah, Andy Stanley (08:50): You’re fired. Michael Hyatt (08:52): The cool thing about it was I really put myself, cast myself in the story as the victim. I had lost total agency. Everything was beyond my control. And to your point, that was flowing downstream. I was hearing excuses from my team, and all of a sudden, the good news is when you accept responsibility, I regained my agency and now all of a sudden I was able to lead in a different way that directly impacted my team. Andy Stanley (09:19): Wow. It is so easy in the midst of failure or in the midst of perceived failure, especially when there are mitigating circumstances. I mean, there really was a recession. You weren’t making that up. Michael Hyatt (09:30): That’s right. Andy Stanley (09:30): To lean into that in terms of an explanation that becomes an excuse. So the takeaway from all that for our listeners, what’s the takeaway? I mean, other than hire a really, really, really good coach and meet with them once a month, because again, part of the lesson is giving people access to us. Just because we’re in charge doesn’t mean we’re the smartest people in the room. So that was one thing, but what did you learn or what was the takeaway in terms of just the stories we tell ourselves? Michael Hyatt (09:55): Well, for me, it’s kind of the idea of ownership, that I’ve got to take ownership of what’s happening. And though there may be mitigating circumstances, there are always mitigating circumstances. I don’t care what it’s, but you’ve got to start with that question. And it’s become kind of foundational question for me, what is it about my leadership that led to this result? Sometimes it’s not anything, sometimes it was something else, but oftentimes there’s something I need to address. But the thing that makes that so powerful in a culture is when you create a culture where people take ownership and look to their own leadership first, and there’s less finger pointing, less blaming, and more forward progress. Andy Stanley (10:34): Yeah, yeah, always. So in the book, you talk about some practical ways to start identifying these limiting stories because everybody listening, we’re all in the process of telling ourselves multiple stories. Stories about our marriages, our kids, why our neighbors won’t, why my boss, always, all those things. And you mentioned three things and I thought these were great. You said you got to pay attention to your self-talk. You got to look for patterns, and then you have to be curious. So pay attention to your self-talk. I guess that’s that mental conversation sometimes that we’re having with other people in our minds, look for patterns and get curious. Can you talk a little bit just about any one or all three of those? I thought those were three super great steps to take, especially in terms of getting started. Michael Hyatt (11:16): Well, I think one of the superpowers that leaders can acquire is what sometimes is called in the psychology literature, metacognition, which is a fancy way of saying, thinking about our thinking. And most of us don’t do that. But the truth is, we have this narrator that lives inside of our head, much like if you watch a football game, there’s what’s happening on the field. And then there’s the commentators who are blabbing nonstop (11:40): About (11:41): What just happened, what it means, and they’re trying to predict what’s going to happen next. And that’s the role that the narrator plays in our head. But if we’re not conscious of that, too often the narrator starts calling the plays and the narrators becomes the coach. And so we’ve got to realize that the narrator is different than the coach that is inside of us. So I think that identifying that voice and going, wait a second, there are some sentences in my head right now that I’m not sure are true, (12:09): And that’s what I encourage people to do. Write down the sentences that are in your head at that moment when you’re frustrated at that moment, when you’re overwhelmed at that moment where you seem stuck, what are the sentences that are going off in your head? And that is usually indicative of a limiting belief that you’re holding that is not true, but is just a belief that you’ve acquired from somewhere about the world. And you mentioned several things. You might be walking down the hall and somebody doesn’t look at you when you pass and you think, oh, I wonder why they’re mad at me. It’s a limiting belief. It’s just a story. That’s what the narrator is saying, because again, trying to keep you safe and those are the things we need to challenge. And in the book, we have this three part framework, as you know, where we say you’ve got to identify that limiting belief. That’s number one. I think the best way to do that is just write it in a journal or write it somewhere. Because when you can externalize it and get it out of your head onto paper, it becomes quickly apparent that yeah, that’s probably not true. Andy Stanley (13:05): Yeah, that’s one of the things that I’ve taken away from this and just working through. We all have different words sometimes for the same kinds of things, but I’ve learned you’re exactly right. If I say it out loud, or if I think of it in terms of a salesperson in my head, and I think, okay, Andy, if a physical salesperson in a retail outlet used that as a selling point, you would think you’re like the worst salesperson in the whole world. So any method we can use to externalize those, whether it’s write it down and look at it, because again, they’re like paper walls, they hold us in, but they’re easy to punch through once they’re examined. So that whole idea of paying attention to self-talk, and then this kind of goes along with it, look for patterns because it tends to be the same thing over and over again. (13:49): And in the book you asked the question, what story am I telling myself about this situation to get some objectivity? And then here’s a quote from the book I loved. You said you wrote, intuition can be valuable for interrogating our stories, that intuition can be valuable for interrogating our stories. And I took from that, if I heard somebody else saying this, my intuition about what’s behind what they’re saying would allow me to kind of see through how thin the story is. But when it’s me, it’s just difficult to see. So just unpack that a little bit. Michael Hyatt (14:26): I think intuition is sort of an advanced kind of pattern recognition. The more experience we have, (14:35): The (14:35): More we’ve seen the pattern again and again, we recognize it earlier. This is why if you’ve ever been in a car accident and you did something that you really didn’t consciously think of, you just were able to move out of the way or from hitting that other car. It’s because there was a part of you knew what was happening before it registered in your conscious mind. (14:55): And that’s intuition. And intuition can go astray when it’s not based on a lot of experience. And so I think it’s wise that we pay attention to it, but it works best when it’s coupled with reason. So if you’re a leader and you just say, I’m going with my gut on this, and whether it’s an employee hire or you’re going to fire somebody or whatever, if you’re only paying attention to intuition, that could get you in trouble. But it’s also a good sort of confirmation of what the data tells you. And sometimes you just go, it says the data is this. And I’ll give you a good example. We hired a guy one time where the data was amazing about this guy. He’d been a captain in the army. He had led an elite unit in special forces in the army. He had all these kind of accolades and everything, and we hired him as our first salesperson. And in six months, he didn’t get one sale. And the crazy thing was we had had all these personality tests and everything, and one of the personality tests that we like and use a lot is Kolbe, K-O-L-B-E. (15:57): And Colby gave him a grade. We used the right fit program, and it gave him a grade of a C. In other words, the chances of him succeeding in the role that we had specified for him was just a C. And so we said to ourselves, based on our intuition, coupled with pride, we said that the test is wrong. Andy Stanley (16:16): Sure it is. Michael Hyatt (16:18): Well, that was a very expensive mistake. We figured we lost a couple million dollars worth of sales, but he should have gotten during that time. And unfortunately we had to part company with him, and it was all amicable and everything, but still a tough lesson to learn. Andy Stanley (16:30): Yep. Intuition has its limits. And in the book you talk about you should trust your intuition in the areas where you have sort of a backlog of knowledge and experience, not just go with your gut. So assuming we are beginning to examine these stories, we tell ourselves, we’re beginning to kind of punch through the paper walls to realize they’re not always accurate. They don’t always reflect reality. So one of my questions I wrote down is, so where do we start? I mean, that’s kind of stripping away the negative part. How do we begin rebuilding, I guess, or moving forward in terms of recreating a narrative that’s more realistic or actually is more helpful? I guess Michael Hyatt (17:07): We break it down in these three broad steps in the book. So to identify this narrative that we have as number one. And that’s write the sentences down, listen to yourself talk. Number two is to interrogate that narrative. Is this really true? Sometimes we have this situation where we have an experience and then we globalize it. It’s always true. I had an experience with a manager and maybe he was greedy or he never looked out for the employees. And so then I come to the conclusion that all leaders, all management are like that. (17:41): And this happens all the time because we globalize. And so we’ve got to interrogate these narratives and make sure that actually true and that they comport with the facts. And then the third thing is to imagine, to begin to transform and imagine a different narrative, a different way of interpreting those facts. And there’s a story that I often tell, it’s not in the book I wished it was, but I had a friend, Dan Miller, who sadly died a year ago January, but he was a really dear friend of mine, but he grew up Mennonite. And so he would stand on the stage and he said, I grew up Mennonite. It was a very repressive environment. We didn’t have any modern technology, we didn’t have a tv. We were in this closed community. We didn’t get to get out much. We didn’t get to socialize that much outside of our community. And it was very oppressive. And then he just pauses and he said, or I grew up in this amazing community where I knew beyond a shout of a doubt, my parents loved me and my neighbors were always there when we needed them. We would just rally around things when we needed each other, whether it was Billy the Barn or doing something else, they were always there for us. And because we weren’t distracted by technology, we played board games, we had conversations, deep conversations with our parents and our siblings. So he said, you know what? I get to choose which of those narratives I believe. Andy Stanley (19:06): Wow. Michael Hyatt (19:06): So often we get in situations that are negative and we amplify the negativity and we create a narrative in this situation that’s very disempowered. I was talking to a pastor this morning about this very thing who just, he couldn’t assume positive intent on the part of his board, and they were sort of out to get him all the time. And I finally ask him, I just said, how is that serving you? Because it seems to me that that’s one of the key ways to make yourself miserable is to assume that everybody has negative intent towards you. I think most people get up in the morning, they’re trying to do the best they can, and most people I think are trying to help you. So again, what we assume about reality is important, and the meaning we put on it is critical. Andy Stanley (19:52): So in the book, the way you summarized that, you used to say, you write, find the new or find a new narrative. And then the other thing I wrote down you wrote was, then you practice it. So I guess it’s when we find ourselves going one way, we stop and say, no, that’s the old narrative. I’m going to tell myself the new narrative. How does that work specifically? Because I mean, I don’t have to tell you. These things can be so ingrained. I mean, it’s things we remember from the eighth grade somebody said about us, or we have this very emotional experience in a first marriage. And you just carry that into all your other relationships. So part of it is identifying the narrative I need to let go of, but what does a person do to not erase the other narrative but replace it? I mean, again, the book is full of tips. So just for top of mind, Michael Hyatt (20:41): This is super practical and it’s sort of deceptively simple, but I really believe that language is the way we access thinking. When I’m coaching somebody, I’m listening to the words that they’re choosing to use because I know that that’s a window into their thinking. (20:59): But it’s also a thing that if we pay attention to the words we’re using ourselves, it can sometimes reveal our thinking. And sometimes all it takes to change our thinking is to change our language. So I do tell this story in the book where I’m on an airplane going to a speaking engagement on the west coast, and a friend of mine calls me and he says, so what are you doing? And I said, I have to go to this speaking engagement on the west coast. And he just stopped for a minute. He said, wait a second, Andy Stanley (21:24): You have to Michael Hyatt (21:25): Go. He said, for as long as I’ve known you, this is what you’ve wanted to do. You’re living your dream. What do you mean you have to go? Did you choose to do this? I said, I did. And he said, it seems to me like you get to go. Well, that little simple shift in one word changed my whole perception. So I said, if I’m going to start changing my perception, and I literally had my wife correct me on this yesterday, I’ve got to start saying, I get to do this thing because there are very few things that other people make me do. I can think of nothing. I choose everything, and so I get to do it, but that changes my attitude and the way that I begin to perceive it and process it and experience it, it can literally have an impact on my emotional connection with the event or the language that I use. So I would just challenge people is start using different language. (22:15): Another example, real quick, I went to work for a guy he was very difficult to work for, and he was the boss. He was the CEO of this organization, and he was very mercurial, just kind of bipolar up and down all the time. And all the other executives in the company spoke very negatively about him, ill of him. And I just decided I was going to opt out of that, and I just didn’t think it was right for me to take money from him and at the same time speak ill of him. So I decided just as a social experiment, I was going to try to find the good and speak the positive. Well, that started, first of all, it had an impact on me. I started seeing a side of him and I started, it’s kind of like that, what they call it, reticular activation, that when all of a sudden you’re considering buying a new car, maybe you’re going to buy a new Tesla and you really haven’t noticed it that much, but now all of a sudden they’re everywhere. Andy Stanley (23:09): They’re everywhere. Yeah. The color, even the color that you’re looking at at, Michael Hyatt (23:12): Right? Andy Stanley (23:12): Yeah. Michael Hyatt (23:13): Like that crazy color. So it’s kind of the same thing when you start noticing, then your brain starts looking for those things. So I was looking for the positive things, and then I would start pointing those out to my colleague and colleagues, and it began to shift their perception. And so I think there’s huge value in just our language because it’s a way of programming ourselves and not in a manipulative way and programming others, and not in a manipulative way, but just to present another side of reality that sometimes we miss because the meaning that we’ve imposed upon it is skewed. It’s only part of the story. Andy Stanley (23:49): What’s so interesting is why you’re saying that this is something that parents do intuitively with their kids. A son or daughter walks in and says, I’m so stupid. No, you’re not. It’s like, oh no, don’t say that. That’s what we say is don’t even say that. Because in that relationship, we recognize the power of those words. And the last thing we want our kids to do is to embrace an incorrect or negative narrative about themselves. So we know to go back to earlier part of the conversation, we know intuitively this is true and powerful because again, when it’s out there in the real world, in terms of another person, it’s so evident. But when it comes to ourselves, it is so difficult to keep so true. It’s so difficult to keep focused on and the power of the words. And the other thing you wrote in the book, in fact, I think this was a call out toward the end, and I think sort of a great summary. (24:41): You said, you are not stuck, and I love this. You are not stuck with the stories you have about yourself. You can train your narrator that we all have one. You can train your narrator to create newer, truer storylines for your life. And you unpack that in the book in such a way we’re not lying to ourselves. Because on the surface it’s like, oh, I’m just going to make up something that’s not true of me and I’ll become that thing. This is not, is recognizing actually what’s true in discarding the exaggerated lies or the exaggerations that again, we’ve taken in from people around us or that we just started telling ourselves based on a very emotional experience in the past. So the whole idea of reframing it, saying it out loud, renewing our minds to go to a New Testament concept, it really is super, super powerful. Again, as you think about leadership and marketplace leadership, because most of your illustrations came from the marketplace, you’ve got vast experience with companies. Anything else you’d say to just mid-level managers who feel like they’re kind of the victims of everybody else in the organization or what we talked about a minute ago, the fact that if we don’t get this right, we create a backlog of energy and frustration when people are become victims of our victim mentality? What would you say to the audience? Michael Hyatt (25:57): Yeah, I really believe in the concept of self-leadership. And I think this is one of the things that leaders have got to get right, and they’ve got to be willing to challenge their own assumptions, their own stories, and give the people that are right around them permission to challenge those stories. (26:14): And (26:14): One of the things we’ve done in my family and my youngest daughter, Marissa often says this when somebody does it, and more often than not to me, she’ll say, if I blurt out a limiting belief of some sort, she’ll just say, well, if you say so, and it’s just a good reminder of, oh, that was a limiting belief, wasn’t it? And so we’ll just kind of re-engineer it right there in the moment. But I think if you can build a team like that in your organization (26:38): And talk about limiting beliefs and talk about how they impede your performance and how they keep you from accomplishing what you want to accomplish and then give each other permission, let’s just correct this in real time because better stories lead to better results. And I think that one of the things that Eileen, my executive coach that I quoted earlier, taught me early on is that if you look at the outcomes you’re getting the results. Those are dependent upon the actions you take. But where do the actions come from? And as leaders, we have a bias toward action, but what drives that is our thinking. And so if you really want to connect the dots and change the results, you’ve got to change your thinking. You’ve got to engineer your thinking to a better result. Andy Stanley (27:23): I was just looking, there’s like 12 questions you have about halfway through the book. I forget what chapter this is that are exactly those kinds of questions. The questions that even as I was reading them, again, you read the book because I’m going to interview the author, and then you find yourself just reading the book. That’s when I know it’s a good book. It’s like, oh yeah, I really need to finish this book. I’m going to talk to Michael about this, but I don’t want to rush through this book. And I took a picture of these two pages with these questions. (27:52): It. Well, they’re the questions that pull me out of my limited framework. And I think at times I think big, but then I get introduced to questions that really punch holes in the limitations that I put on myself or our organization. And I hate to say this, but even the excuses I use, because every industry has a set of excuses. Well, the reason the publishing industry, the reason the church, the reason, the reason, the reason. But those questions in particular, they’re so powerful because they begin to strip away the narratives that have been reinforced by other people that do what I do and the narratives that are reinforced by my experience. And both of those things become limitations over time. So anything we can do as leaders that push us outside those limiting frameworks, even if we’re successful, is powerful. And so this book does that at multiple levels. Anything else before we close? There’s two or three things in here. I thought I would like to do a whole podcast just on these sections. This book is so rich. But anyway, closing thoughts, Michael? Michael Hyatt (28:56): Well, I think if I were leading an organization and my daughter Megan is now the CEO, leading our organization, but if I were back leading the organization, I would really focus on this thinking thing. Mindset is really probably 90% is too much, but it’s a lot your mindset. I can remember this. I dunno if you remember back in 2022 when the Minnesota Vikings were playing in this game against, who was it? The Colts. And they were behind 33 to nothing at the half. And so one of the players, I can’t remember who it was now, walked into the locker room and said, guys, we are only five touchdowns away from winning. And so the Vikings ended up winning 36 to 33. They pulled it off, but it was locked inside their thinking because it would be easy in the last Super Bowl to just assume we’re too far behind to catch up. But again, I think our thinking is where it’s got to start. We’ve got to win between our ears before we’re going to win on the field Andy Stanley (29:58): And then take those words and say them out loud and stop ourselves from the self-talk. That becomes a limiting factor. And we’ve all seen other people do this. In fact, we’ve met people. You talk to somebody for 30 minutes and you realize they are their own worst enemy and they are their own worst enemy because they have believed in narrative about themselves. And as an outsider looking in, we see so much more potential in them than they see in themselves. And again, we have the potential to do the same thing to ourselves. Michael, it’s an incredible book. Mind Your Mindset. Again, we just touched on some of the surface issues, but thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Michael Hyatt (30:36): Thanks for having me. Andy Stanley (30:37): Super helpful conversation. I know all of our listeners are going to get so much out of it and already have. And again, the book is mind Your Mindset. You need to pick it up wherever books are sold. But that’s all the time we have today. Thanks for listening. And before we leave, we have one ask and that’s to subscribe by subscribing to the podcast, you help us grow the audience, which allows us to keep improving and bringing you great guests like the one you heard from today to bring you more helpful content to help you go further faster. Also, be sure to visit the Andy stanley.com website where you can download the leadership podcast application guide that includes a summary of this discussion, plus questions for reflection or group discussion. And make sure you join us next week for the Reverb episode where Susie and I will dig even deeper on the topic of minding Your Mindset right here on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Comments are closed.