By Allen Haynes • July 14, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Suzy Gray (00:02): Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast reverb, a conversation designed to help leaders go even further faster. And this episode by digging deeper into our listener questions. I’m your host, Suzy Gray. Andy, we had so many thoughtful questions from our listeners that came in. We wanted to make sure to answer as many as possible. So today we’re jumping back in to answer even more of our listener questions. So some are quick hits, some go deep, and all of them reflect real challenges leaders are facing right now. So let’s get into it. All right. The first one comes from CJ. He says, how do you know when to step in and lead versus when to let others struggle and learn? Andy Stanley (00:47): This is a good question, and it’s tough because oftentimes the people who report to us when they’re kind of flagging, they’re not doing so well, they’re not leading well. It reflects on us. So of course we take it personally. And of course there’s always going to be the temptation to step in, whether it’s in the middle of an event, in a moment, in a meeting, and try to bail them out or fix things. And that’s generally a mistake because especially if it’s in public, because they will probably never recover. It’s so embarrassing. So without knowing specifically the context CJ’s talking about, I say in general, you just let people struggle and then you evaluate, this is what we talk about all the time. You orchestrate and evaluate, and in the evaluation you help people get better because struggle is good. Struggle is like building a muscle. Failure can be progress if we’ve hired, well, (01:35): Besides that, as we’ve talked about before, one of the best habits you can develop as a leader is not making all the decisions. Even though you’re the leader, you may be responsible, but you don’t have to make all the decisions. One of the most powerful things and empowering things we can say to the people who work with us is you decide, you decide, you decide, you decide, and then you handle the consequences of outcome of that particular decision. And as long as, and I think this is important to be fair to people who are struggling a little bit in their leadership, as long as we are creating clear expectations and as long as evaluation is built into the culture, then failure and struggle can actually lead to progress. So again, there’s a time to step in, but it should be rare. It should be something really, really big, especially if you realize the person’s going to lose face or lose the respect of the rest of the organization or their department because you had to bail them out. So struggle is fine, embarrassment can be overcome. And again, failure can lead to becoming a better leader. Suzy Gray (02:37): And I think you’re so right, that idea of the short feedback loops of let them go through it, but then keep a really short feedback loop and evaluate it close enough that the memory is there and there’s learning to be had. So I think that’s so true. Andy Stanley (02:50): Yeah. Suzy Gray (02:51): Alright, so Josh wants to know how do you stay emotionally healthy when leadership feels isolating? He says, I often feel like I’m an island holding the weight of increasing revenue, keeping culture positive, et cetera. Andy Stanley (03:04): So here’s what I thought about, and Josh, I’m not laughing at your question. I’m laughing at your insight because when he said, I feel like I’m on an island, I’m holding the weight of increasing revenue, keeping culture positive, I thought, sounds like leadership to me. I mean, those aren’t problems you solve. That is the tension you manage as a leader. You’ll remember in my interview with Carol Tomate, CEO of UPS, because she was with Home Depot for years in the C-suite. And she said, I always heard it’s lonely at the top. And I thought, that’s not true. And then I showed up and she took on the role of CEO of UPS during the pandemic. Suzy Gray (03:41): Pandemic. Andy Stanley (03:42): And I thought she was going to say, and I realized, yeah, it’s not lonely at the top. And she said, you know what? It’s lonely at the top. Just moving from that sphere of where you have peers and friends at work, (03:56): And once you become the point person, you don’t have any more peers and you really don’t have any more friends, you can be friendly, but there’s an inequity that makes friendship actually impossible. Even people who were your friends before and you would still consider them friends, there’s a shift in the dynamic. So Josh, I would just say this, what you are experiencing is the consequence and to some extent the prize of leadership. And that brings us back to your good question. That means you’ve got to figure out, because you’ve identified that you’ve got to figure out how to prioritize your emotional health. But I would say you now in that position of leadership where you do feel isolated and have all that extra responsibility, you’ve got to figure out how to prioritize your emotional and physical health because your emotional and your physical health will impact your ability to lead. (04:45): But that is up to you. Again, that goes back to self-leadership and last thing, some people just aren’t cut out for point leadership. It is too isolating. It’s really bad for them and they are bad at it. Some people don’t recognize that until they get into that position and they realize, wait a minute, I thought this was the prize and I feel like I’m being penalized. Here’s a company I’ve loved and now I don’t enjoy my job. Because again, they were elevated past essentially what they were cut out or wired to do. And that’s okay. The sooner you recognize that and admit it and then step back into the organization, you’re going to create more value for the organization because you’re back in your sweet spot. On a couple of occasions here, over these last 30 years that has happened where we have promoted people who wanted promotions to be point leaders over larger responsibility, the kind of responsibility where you never clock out, you carry it home because it’s not just a job, it’s a responsibility. You could get a phone call twenty four seven because of the nature of what we do. (05:49): And who would eventually come back and say, I thought I wanted this. I don’t think I’m cut. This is what one gentleman said to me, I don’t think cut out for this. And I thought, that’s a great observation. And so we self-awareness kept him in the organization. He was great, but he realized suddenly I’ve got all the headwinds and I feel like I’ve lost my friends. So that’s an important recognition that some people need to make. Suzy Gray (06:13): Yeah. Now I think I remember that podcast with Carol, and we can link that podcast in the show notes. I remember her saying she had to figure out outside of the organization where she could get those needs met because the friendships and the things that she developed in previous roles, it just is different. Andy Stanley (06:31): And to the person listening who says, Andy, you’re wrong. You can be the point leader and still have friends at work. You think that because in your mind, they’re still friends and peers, but if you’re responsible for somebody’s paycheck, somebody’s bonus, somebody’s schedule, there’s an inequity. It sits there, they feel it even if you don’t. And that’s just the nature of leadership. Suzy Gray (06:55): Well, here’s a similar question that was submitted anonymously, but I know a lot of leaders will relate. It says, what are your best practices for staying grounded when leadership starts to feel too personal? Like your identity is tied up in your role? Andy Stanley (07:10): Yes. This is an important question. Is this your question, Suzy? Suzy Gray (07:12): This is actually mine. I just submitted anonymously. Yeah. So what should I do? Andy Stanley (07:17): Yeah, so let me reread part of this question. This is a deep question. What are your best practices for staying grounded when leadership starts to feel too personal? (07:28): And then they clarified by too personal? It’s like your identity is too tied up in your role. This is so important. So let me just pontificate for a second. We should build our identities around our values, and I’ll tell you why in a minute. This is something we all have to be so intentional about. And then again, as I mentioned in our last episode when I talked about the Stephen Covey exercise, it’s an exercise where you realize really what you value most. So our identities should be built around our values, not our jobs or our responsibilities. And here’s what happens. If you compromise your values, then really all you have is a job. All you have is a reputation. All you have are responsibilities. And here’s the kicker. All three of those things are going away. So if my identity is wrapped up in a job, my reputation or my responsibilities, if that’s what my identity gets wrapped up in, then my identity is going to go away and I will essentially lose. Suzy Gray (08:28): And that job does, Andy Stanley (08:29): Yes, I will lose myself. This happens to people all the time, especially men. They feel like they’ve lost themselves because they were so identified with a role or position or influence or recognition. And as that begins to wane and it’s going to wane once, we’re not working there anymore. Once we get older, fewer people know your name. So it’s such a mistake to early on, it’s a giant mistake early on in our careers to compromise our values in order to further our careers. Because in that moment, we don’t realize that we have lost ourselves (09:06): Because we are nothing more. And again, let’s take all the religious language out of this. We’re really nothing more than what we value the most and how we express those values in our lives. So to compromise the core for the sake of something that’s going away one day is a huge mistake. But the problem is we don’t understand what we’ve done in the moment because we still have the job. In fact, we got to raise, we got a bonus, and it feels good. More people know us. We’re more famous than ever or more popular within our industry than ever. So again, that’s when I think men in particular where they feel like they’re losing themselves, then they feel that way because they lost themselves years ago in some cases when they compromise their values. So to answer the question as this person wrestles with, I feel like my identity is being wrapped up in what I do. Good for you. You’ve recognized that that’s a huge mistake. You’ve got to recenter around what is actually most important to you. And you have to fend off the temptation to identify yourself so closely with what you do because one day you’re no longer going to do that and recentering ourselves around. What we deeply believe and hold to be most valuable is actually what gives us the grit and the determination to keep our reputations and jobs in proper perspective. (10:23): But most people never stop long enough to identify what they value the most. So they compromise it without knowing it, and they literally have lost themselves. I always think of that, the Don Henley song in the New York Minute, it’s an old song. He says, the men get lost sometimes when dreams unfurl and it’s such a common thing, but I think it happens before we know it happens. So this is a great question. And again, our sense of self has to be grounded in what we believe is most important and what is with us throughout our lives, not just in a season of our lives. Suzy Gray (11:00): That’s really great. Andy Stanley (11:01): That was almost like a sermon. Sorry. That was really, really great. So long. Suzy Gray (11:04): That’s really great. And I think that just highlights the importance of taking the time to identify what you value, because if you don’t identify that and write it down and have that be a guard over your life, you’ll compromise it. You’ll compromise it for Andy Stanley (11:15): The sake of the temporay. Suzy Gray (11:16): Yep, and then you’ll have nothing in the end. Andy Stanley (11:18): Well, it’s the cliche, the man or woman wakes up one day and they’ve succeeded in corporate world and their kids don’t like ’em. Don’t know them. Suzy Gray (11:26): Can’t get that back. Can’t get it back. You can’t, Andy Stanley (11:28): Right. Yeah. Suzy Gray (11:28): I don’t know if this is a complete aside, but do you ever watch that Adam Sandler movie Click? There was times in his life he didn’t like, and he would fast forward through different parts of his life, and then he got to the end and realized he fast forwarded through all the hard times that were important times with his family, and then he didn’t have a relationship at the end and didn’t fast forward through the times at work because they were success and accolades and realizing I can’t get back the things that I wanted to fast forward and the things that I spent my time doing amounted to nothing. So that’s what it reminded me of when it’s actually a very poignant movie, I’m just saying. But it reminds me of that idea, Andy Stanley (12:05): That movie sounds too much like my job. Suzy Gray (12:10): I see that happen again and again and again. I’ve seen that movie again. I’ve seen that movie before. I’ve seen that movie. Okay, I’m sorry. Just not call. Click. Alright. Here is one from Tim. Tim says, what are some of the most under-recognized but critical leadership skills that get overlooked, especially in high performing environments? Andy Stanley (12:29): Well actually, Suzy, you and I were talking about this question a few minutes ago and I thought what you had to say was super helpful on this one. Do you remember that? Suzy Gray (12:37): Well, I think that when you are in your zone, getting your work list done and getting your task list done and getting whatever’s in front of you done, you can fail to recognize the fact that you’re very interdependence. The interdependence is there, but you forget. You just are in your zone getting your list done. And I think there’s a critical leadership skill of pausing and lifting up and saying, Hey, what’s going on around me that this is connected to? Because there may be a way to get it done more effectively. There may be a way that somebody else’s work can contribute to what I’m doing, and that really creates this high performing environment. But if you stay in your own zone for getting this interdependence, you miss an opportunity to really create something special. Andy Stanley (13:22): And the thing I thought about when you were saying that is not only do you miss opportunities, it’s easy to think, well, what I’m doing is the most important thing. Suzy Gray (13:30): And what are they doing over there? Andy Stanley (13:31): Yeah. What are they doing on Tuesday doing all the work? Right? To the degree I can remember the interdependence, the more gratitude. Gratitude is easy. Communication is easy. Arrogance goes away. It’s why every Sunday morning when I get there early, and there are volunteers who were there before me, okay, always. And they’re always go, good morning. And I’m like, thank you, thank you, thank. And I specifically say, Hey, if you weren’t back here doing this, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do, which is not blowing smoke. That is absolutely true. And sometimes I say, if it weren’t for you, I would be sitting on my front porch gathering people on my lawn to preach to because there is no way I could pull this off by myself. So in a performance environment or an event environment like we do, it’s easy to see the interdependence because we see all the players, but in every organization that interdependence, it exists there. Part of it’s miles away. Part of it’s in a different country. And again, it really mitigates against arrogance and isolation when we can not only remember, but then as leaders remind the people around us, we’re not hyping interdependence, we’re not creating it. It exists. There are parts that if it goes away, we go away. We can’t do what we do. So I do think that’s a very under-recognized but critical leadership skill is the recognition of, and the championing of (14:56): The actual interdependence in our organization. It’s huge. Suzy Gray (15:00): For sure. Alright, last question for our reverb episode. This was an anonymous submission, and the question is, what’s the best leadership advice that you’ve ever ignored and why did it actually work out Andy Stanley (15:11): The best leadership advice I ignored and how did it work out? Why did it work out? Okay, Suzy, I know you don’t want to do this, but you a few minutes ago told us the leadership advice you got that you did ignore because it was so bad and you were at a conference and you named all the people at this conference, and every one of them are internationally Suzy Gray (15:33): International names. Andy Stanley (15:35): And one of the speakers got up and tell our audience this was their bottom line. Suzy Gray (15:40): Yeah. I don’t know if this is going to be helpful for the audience. Andy Stanley (15:43): It’s not going to be helpful to be entertaining it. Entertaining. Suzy Gray (15:47): Yeah it’s entertaining. Andy Stanley (15:47): Like everybody knows this person and they said, Suzy Gray (15:51): This is the closing person of the talk. It’s been this amazing day and this person is getting up to kind of close the event out, like Andy Stanley (15:58): Gorbachev spoke at this event. Suzy Gray (16:00): I mean, that kind of event, that’s that event. And the advice that was given was take care of yourself, take care of number one, and get a prenup. And I decided right then I’m going to do neither one of those things. Andy Stanley (16:16): I am so glad that you, yeah. Suzy Gray (16:19): But that was literally the advice given, and it was at a big leadership event years and years and years and years ago. And I just felt like, wow, that feels like such bad advice on both fronts. So glad I ignored it. Andy Stanley (16:31): And had very little to do with the leadership. Okay, so mine Suzy Gray (16:33): But what’s yours? What’s your role? Andy Stanley (16:35): Yeah, mine was, I was at a conference, one’s personal, one’s a conference, one’s at a conference, wellknown guy. (16:40): And he said he’s a room full of leaders. He said, you know what? Every once in a while, you just need to fire somebody. You just need to fire somebody. Because people sit up and pay attention and they realize, and his phraseology was something like, every organization needs a good firing every once in a while, no lie way to create a culture of fear. I’m like, I just looked down the road at the two or three of us that were sitting there and I’m like, this was a leadership conference. Conference. Then the other advice was personal. Two people I respect so much, and one of them laughs about this with me to this day is when I left my dad’s organization, when I left my dad’s church, two individual people who I went to for advice both told me, you need to leave town. You can’t stay in Atlanta. And the word that one of these individuals used was, you need to individuate. You need to individuate. You got to get out of town, create your own thing, (17:39): Be your own person. You can’t stay in Atlanta, be in your dad’s shadow. You need to individuate, which I did not take their advice. And one of these gentlemen who, you know, to this day, whenever I see him, he laughs about his bad advice that he gave me because his things have worked out and things with my dad and I are great. And we’ve started this wonderful organization. And he says, to this day, I laugh about the worst advice I ever gave was to tell you you need to get out of town and individuate. So he acknowledges it and we can laugh about it, but one of the reasons I share that it was very hard for me to ignore that these are two guys again that I went to older way more life experience. This was 30 years ago. And when I thought, well, I’ve just heard from two very wise people who told me the same Suzy Gray (18:23): Thing, the same thing. Andy Stanley (18:24): I’m a fool not to take this to heart. Suzy Gray (18:27): Yeah. Andy Stanley (18:27): I mean, I would tell anybody else if you walk wisely, but I knew, okay, I get what they’re saying, I understand it, but Suzy Gray (18:35): It doesn’t feel right. Andy Stanley (18:37): There’s more to this. It didn’t feel right. So anyway, and on that note, Suzy Gray (18:41): There you go. Well, that is all Andy Stanley (18:43): Yours was better Suzy Gray (18:44): I dunno, Lisa was a little crazy or I don’t know. Well, that is all the questions that we have time for today. While we couldn’t get to them all, we did read everyone and highlighted the main things that came up Andy Stanley (18:56): And we should do this again. Suzy Gray (18:58): I know this is fun. Andy Stanley (18:59): Yeah. Suzy Gray (18:59): Hopefully the listeners think it’s fun as well. Well, Andy, thank you for taking time to answer our listeners burning questions. And thanks to all of our listeners for submitting your questions and listening to this episode of Reverb. If you found it helpful, hey, pass it along to another leader. And as always, subscribe wherever you listen. And check out Annie stanley.com/podcast for more resources to help you lead better, communicate smarter, and go further faster. Comments are closed.