By Allen Haynes • May 12, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Suzy Gray (00:03): Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast reverb, A conversation designed to help leaders go even further faster by digging deeper into this month’s episode. I’m your host, Suzy Gray. Andy. Last week in our episode on the weight of our Words in leadership, we talked about why some words weigh more than others, especially in leadership. Because as a leader, every conversation you have, every sentence you say, and even what you don’t say is shaping your team, your culture, and ultimately your organization, which is a really big responsibility, especially when you’re running an organization because the words you use might not be top of mind when you’re focused on organizational progress, which I get. Leaders are not going to be perfect. I mean, sometimes we’re going to misspeak. So what do we do when that happens? How do we get back in the driver’s seat of shaping a positive culture after a communication misstep? Because as we discussed last week, when you’re a leader, your words just don’t matter. They Andy Stanley (01:00): Linger. They do linger. That’s a good way of saying it. Yeah. When we misspeak and we all do it even unintentionally, in fact, hopefully it’s unintentionally, it’s sort of like stepping on someone’s foot in the dark. I mean you didn’t mean to, you really didn’t mean to, but it hurt. I mean, they hurt and just saying, Hey, I didn’t see you there. Doesn’t really make their foot stop hurting. This goes back to what we talked to you last time. That intent is oftentimes irrelevant. Irrelevant, right? Again, last week we talked about as it relates to the words we use, we talked a lot about clarity and intentionality, (01:32): But (01:32): Today, this whole question of what do you do when you said something you didn’t mean to or it wasn’t taken the way that you meant it? Following up is such a big, big deal because, and I want all of our podcasts listeners to hear this, the folks who report to you and work with you, let me tell you what they’re most attuned to. They’re attuned to the same thing you are. They’re not expecting you to be perfect, like you don’t expect them to be perfect. What they are expecting, especially if you’re the leader that they again last week look up to, they are expecting you to immediately and quickly own your misstep (02:07): And not defend it. And they are going to remember the rest of their lives, potentially, certainly the rest of their time. They work with you how you responded to your misstep. They are going to remember that. And the way you know that is because you remember if your boss or it may, a current boss or supervisor is defensive when they mess up or they immediately own it and apologize. There’s something in all of us that feels like if I acknowledge a mistake that’s showing weakness and that is not true. It is the very opposite. Opposite strength acknowledges weakness. Weakness refuses to acknowledge weakness. Insecurity refuses to acknowledge weakness. Insecurity refuses to own a mistake. So I mean, we know that nothing I’ve just said is new information, but in the moment it is human nature to defend rather than just humble ourselves and walk into that office and shut the door and say, I’m sorry. There is no excuse for what I said and I’m coming to you to apologize. And because I said it in front of the group, I just want you to know I’m going to apologize to the group, but I wanted you to hear it from me first. That’s a story they will never (03:24): Forget. (03:25): That’s the story. They go home and tell, and that’s the story. When someone is critical of you to them, that’s when they say, well, let me tell you about my experience. She came back to my office and owned that. So we are all going to misstep with our words. In fact, we are going to misstep with our words more than any other area of leadership, more than our decisions, our words. This is where we’re going to mess up the most and we need to acknowledge that and own it quickly. And that is a sign of strength. It’s a sign of good leadership. It’s what we want, the people we report to do. So great leadership isn’t just about the things we plan to say. It’s about how we respond to what we have said that maybe we shouldn’t have said, Suzy Gray (04:12): And we’ve all been there. We thought we were being clear or funny or helpful, and boy, it just did not land. And in fact, it may have hurt, not just not landed. It may have actually hurt the person. So let’s talk about how to clean up a verbal mess without making a bigger one. Andy Stanley (04:31): Again, this is so important. In many cases, I’ll say just for me, 90% of the time, I don’t even know I did it. I don’t know. And if no one in our organization has permission or the freedom to point it out, I will never know. So I won’t even have an opportunity to apologize or make things right, because I didn’t know I made things wrong. So one of the questions for all of our podcast listeners is this who has access to you and feels permission to circle back around to you and say, when you said this, you hurt him or you hurt her, or do you realize how that made the wholesale department feel? Or do you realize, I know you were being funny, but do you realize you kind of undermined everything you said before that? I Suzy Gray (05:15): Mmh, Andy Stanley (05:17): We don’t know (05:18): And somebody needs to be or feel empowered to bring it to our attention. And everybody listening, you either have that person or those people or you don’t and they immediately came to mind or they didn’t. If you’re not sure who they are, again, this is an important conversation because we’re all going to mess up. I don’t think we have anyone like this in our podcast audience, but if anybody out there is thinking, well, this isn’t an issue for me, it’s a double issue, an issue. It’s a double issue. Number one, you have said the wrong things and hurt people. That’s problem number one. Problem number two, nobody is empowered to bring it to your attention. You’re aware, you’re unaware, and you do not want to be an unaware leader because you don’t want to work for one. So in a professional environment, this is so complicated, and we touched on this last week at home, we generally know immediately when we’ve messed up, we can see it in their eyes. People are not afraid to express emotion at home. At home. Person can go dark right in front of you. They can pout, they can lose their temper, whatever their temperament is. We know if you’re married, your spouse is going to say, honey, you cannot talk to him. The feedback loop is a very small circle Suzy Gray (06:28): At home. Andy Stanley (06:28): At home, Suzy Gray (06:29): At Andy Stanley (06:29): Work. It is not because we are in professional mode. So we have to work even harder to unearth those insensitivities and sensitive statements. And the reason it’s important is because you set it up front, those things linger. Those are, I don’t want to be too dramatic. They’re kind of unhealed wounds. They’re loose ends, they’re unresolved, and then we circle back around like nothing’s happened and just want to move on. And there’s a hurt there. In a great culture, that feedback loop is short, not as short as it’s going to be at home probably, but it’s built in. Somebody can say something to us and then our next stop, our next phone call is that person. You just own it. That’s good leadership. That is strength, that is security. Suzy Gray (07:15): And Andy, as you said, those stories circulate. Andy Stanley (07:19): Exactly. And that’s good because again, we are, as leaders, we’re modeling what we want our culture to be. I want everybody in this organization when they say the wrong thing, to learn about it quickly and to own it immediately and to resolve it as soon as possible. If that’s part of our culture that does so much for communication, it builds trust. And that’s a strong culture where you’re able to do that. And again, it can move up and down and left and right and no silos. Keep that communication from happening. So one of the best things that can happen to a leader is for them to screw up and own it, because now you’ve said nobody’s off limits, right? (07:59): And everybody could admit they’re wrong and we don’t have to hide our failures. And it’s a sign of security and good leadership. You’re not going to be penalized for that. But what you’re going to be penalized for ultimately is refusing to own the mess you made, the mess you made. Absolutely. That’s a good culture. So this is modeling, and the more influence a person has in the organization, the quicker those stories are going to circulate and the more powerful they are and their culture shaping. And the flip side is true as well. When you’re defensive, you don’t own it. You don’t take responsibility for it. That’s not how I meant it. She’s too sensitive. It’s Suzy Gray (08:36): Their Andy Stanley (08:37): Fault. It’s his fault. That’s going to circulate as well. Suzy Gray (08:39): 100%. Andy Stanley (08:40): And let’s just all pause and ask this question, and then what happens to communication Suzy Gray (08:44): Shuts down. Andy Stanley (08:45): Everybody’s super careful. Yeah, it begins to shut down. Everything gets filtered, and nobody wants to work in an organization like that. Definitely not. And that comes back to us Suzy Gray (08:54): For sure. Well, I’ve heard you talk through just the process of how this looks before. Let’s talk through that with our listeners. Andy Stanley (09:01): Yeah, well, it’s so simple. You almost don’t want to say it, but you have to say it when you’ve messed up, when somebody’s brought it to your attention, (09:09): Okay? It’s pretty simple. It’s number one. You go to the person and you acknowledge the misstep. I messed up, I screwed up, and you name it, I should not have said, and then you apologize. And this is so important. Again, your intent is irrelevant if you know said the wrong thing or you said it the wrong way or you said it with the wrong tone, or you shouldn’t have said it in front of three other people. It’s something you should have said to them privately. Those are things I’ve had to apologize for. You know what? I should not have said that in front of other people. So there’s a variety of, I messed up. So you go to the person and you acknowledge the misstep and you ignore the issue of intent. It doesn’t matter what you intended. And don’t even say, I didn’t intend for it until just leave that alone. Just fall on your sword. I messed up. Suzy Gray (09:59): Own it. Andy Stanley (10:00): And you do not ask them to forgive you. This is very important, and this is going to sound strange coming from me because of what I do. Forgiveness is a gift. You have already taken something from the person, Suzy Gray (10:13): Now you’re asking for Andy Stanley (10:13): Something else. Now you’re asking for something else. And I hear people teach this the wrong way all the time, and I’ve even taught my kids, you apologize. You own it. And if you want to mention forgiveness, at best you can say, I hope someday you might be able to forgive me, but I don’t deserve it. Okay? So don’t take something from them, then ask for something else, but we tend to go there. Would you please forgive me? Well, that’s up to them. And in time they might, but you’re not there to get something. You’re there to acknowledge something. So you acknowledge what you did and you don’t bring up your original intent. That is irrelevant. Suzy Gray (10:50): Can I ask you a question about that? Yeah. You just said that sometimes you may have misspoken in front of a group of people. Andy Stanley (10:57): Yeah. Suzy Gray (10:57): Do you ever go back to the group of people and say, Hey, I said something in this meeting last week that I really shouldn’t have Andy Stanley (11:04): Said Yes. And this is an important question. I’ve made the mistake of offering a critique about a person with a person in the room in front of their peers. That was something I did need to say to them, but it should have been in private. So in that case, I might go back to the group and acknowledge that I shouldn’t have said it in front of them, but in most cases I wouldn’t because that’s embarrassing to double thing. Remember week doubling when I said she messed up? I shouldn’t have told you she messed up in front of all of you. Now she messed. So no. So that’s, I’m going to go to that person and make it right. Where you go back to the group is where you’ve accidentally insulted the person. I mean, you were cruel. In other words, this is you owe the group an apology for the way you talked about a peer. But I would always give that person a heads up to say, you know what? I feel like I need to apologize to our whole group the way I talked about you (12:02): And I want to do that. And I can do that with you in the room next time we meet, or I’m willing to go and talk to each one of them individually. But I want to own that to all of them. You tell me what is most comfortable for you. The last thing I want to do is put you in another comfortable, Suzy Gray (12:16): Another situation of pain. Andy Stanley (12:17): Yes, because I went off on, and unfortunately I have too much experience with that. So honestly, I do. I just would. You’re just talking and you’re, oh, we’re all big boys, and we can so Suzy Gray (12:31): Sometimes, but in the right way. Andy Stanley (12:33): So you acknowledge what you’ve done, and then you offer genuine apology. And I’ve already used the word apology, but I want to tease this out a little bit. The apology is there’s no explanation. There’s just the apology. There’s not an and there’s not a, but there’s not an explanation. This that’s what we said last time. An apology plus an explanation equals an excuse, an apology plus an explanation equals an excuse. There is no excuse. In fact, that’s the language you use. There is no excuse for what I Said, (13:01): Period. I’m not going to offer one. There’s no excuse for what I said because you’re owning this. So that’s really it. And then you have to determine, the third part is do I need to expand this apology outside this one-on-one conversation? In most cases not. But in some cases, there are instances when for the sake of the other person, you got to go back and own it. And the audience where you created it, and I just want to say again, you’re not looking weak. You’re still the boss. Nobody’s going to take your boss or leadership card away. This is what you want to happen everywhere in the organization. So unfortunately, sometimes we need to model it, but defensiveness, it looks bad on everybody. Humility looks good on everybody. So again, these are opportunities. And the problem is, Susie, they come and they go so quick. You only have oftentimes one opportunity or one chance or one little window to go back and make these things right. And again, the broader conversation we’re having is about leveraging our words, word, shape, culture, word shape, relationships. And this is one opportunity to leverage words in a powerful way. How we respond to when we misuse our words, Suzy Gray (14:13): Handling a misstep or handling a opportunity to go back and say, Hey, I misspoke and I didn’t mean to. And I love when you say you sincerely apologize, and then you don’t defend. You just don’t say anything. Don’t feel like you have to fill the uncomfortable void. Let the apology sit there. Andy Stanley (14:33): So an example of this years ago, actually it was 2019, I remember because it was right before Covid, I did a talk, a leadership talk, and in it I inadvertently said two or three things that made some of our female leaders feel devalued. I had no idea, zero idea. I wasn’t even trying to be funny or cute about something. So after the talk, I heard all this whispering, and it was getting back to me that so-and-so felt this, and you demeaned female leadership. Obviously it wasn’t on purpose, but that’s irrelevant. I couldn’t go back to my office and go, well, that’s not what I meant. They just need to grow. Now, I could have done that, but fortunately, my assistant, Diane and one other person, they came to me with specific examples. Here’s what you said, here’s how it was taken by some. You may, I don’t know if you remember this. I remember that. Yeah. So I wrote an email to the whole staff, and then I said, let’s do a lunch and learn, and if you’d like to come and talk more about that, and let me talk more about my views on that. So I thought there’d be 25 people, 127. I remember (15:43): Signed up for this. It was, wow. And just so I got up and just, here’s what I said, and I’ve already apologized. I’ve owned that with the email. But let’s talk about what I meant, because what I meant is important. So again, I felt like it was something that we needed to talk about. Obviously I didn’t talk about it very well the first time. So this is an example of, I apologize, but I didn’t write an email that said, I’m sorry, I said that. Here’s what I meant. I felt like I needed to divorce those two things. Just let the apology fall on the sword with the apology and then say, if you’d like to discuss this further. And then I think too, the Well, the Lunch and learn was I wanted to hear from them as well. So that lunch and learn, I didn’t facilitate it, had Billy Phoenix lead it. He’s our culture director of staff culture, and I just sat there and listened to the conversation. So again, that’s kind of a big giant thing, but I wanted the staff to know, I want to get this right, and I want to hear what you heard, and I want to hear what you’re saying. This is women in leadership in our organization is important to me. It’s so important. I thought I was honoring and cheering on, but apparently I wasn’t. Yeah. So anyway. Suzy Gray (16:53): Well, and that’s the apologize. Let the apology sit and then listen and learn. Andy Stanley (17:00): Yeah, there is a time to listen and learn and move forward. Oftentimes those are two different conversations because it’s emotional and people need an opportunity. See, there might be a chance, an opportunity where you’ve apologized to somebody and then a week later you say, I’d like to circle back around because I have some questions for you. Now that I’ve owned it, I know I didn’t mean to do that. In fact, I didn’t mean to do that. But obviously there’s a blind spot that maybe you can help me with. So Suzy Gray (17:27): Anyway. No, that’s good. Well, as we wrap up, what would you say to a leader who knows that they need to circle back and repair something, but they’re dreading it? Andy Stanley (17:34): Yeah, they’re normal. That’s what I would say. (17:38): If you’re not dreading it, you’re probably not healthy. And if you’re avoiding it and decide, oh, I’m the boss, or they need to grow up, or they’re so immature, yeah, that’s a problem too. You know what? It’s do unto others as you would have them do unto you or do unto others as you would have your son or daughter’s boss do unto your son or daughter or your husband or your wife. Once we put it in the realm of someone we love. Yep. It’s very clear. So sometimes we just need to change lenses for a minute and go, oh, and then step into that uncomfortable spot when we do this the right way. We are actually in some ways, not all the time, we’re actually in some ways in a healthier spot with that person than we were before. We offended them because we’ve said, Hey, I value you so much. I’m circling back around. And again, circling back around to what we talked about last week, not all words weigh the same, and the source determines the weight. So the weight of an apology from someone we look up to is a very heavy and weighty apology, and it means so much. Number one, we don’t expect it. And number two, they didn’t have to offer it because (18:57): Again, we’re not peers. It’s two different relationships. So again, it’s an opportunity to leverage our words. Well, Suzy Gray (19:03): That’s so helpful. Thank you, Andy. And thank you to all of our listeners for listening to this episode of Reverb. If you found it helpful, pass it along to another leader, and as always, subscribe wherever you listen. And check out Andy stanley.com/podcast for more resources to help you as a leader, go further, faster. Comments are closed.