By Allen Haynes • January 13, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast reverb where we dig a little deeper into our topic this month. I’m your host, Suzy Gray, and as always, I’m joined by Andy Stanley. Last week we explored how systems empower people to drive results, especially within organizations. Today we’re going to talk about something just as important, how to audit your current system because systems drive behavior and behaviors create outputs, and we don’t just want to put a bandaid on it. We want to actually fix it and be able to move forward. Andy Stanley (00:29): Yeah, and this is a great question because we’re beginning a new year and we can wait for the red light to come on the dashboard or we can do periodic maintenance to make sure we never see the red light on the dashboard. I guess there’s still red lights on dashboards, newer cars. There’s so many gauges that tell us what’s wrong with our car. I have a card that tells me that I need to put air in a tire and it doesn’t tell me which tire. Suzy Gray (00:52): Oh, so helpful. Yeah, I’m Andy Stanley (00:53): Like so helpful. Okay, now I have to put air in all the tire, all the tires. Yes. I have such big problems in my life. Anyway, the point is periodic evaluation and maintenance that’s required for all of us, whether it’s the systems of our body, our family, our organization, our nation, the world, all those things. So high level here are four things to think about. And again, we we’re answering the question how to create great systems because systems drive behaviors. Behaviors are the culture of the organization, the culture and the behavior of the organization creates the efficiency and the output of the organization. So this is important for all of us. So four things real quick. Number one, and I’ve sort of just said it is don’t wait for a crisis to evaluate your systems. (01:33): We’re leaders. We’re supposed to be proactive about looking at what’s working, what’s not, what we said last time, what’s working so well, we don’t even pay attention to it, what can we learn from that and how do we apply some of those learnings to other areas of the organization if that’s possible. And then also it’s looking outside the organization at other organizations that either do what we do or something similar or where there’s some takeaway. But again, it’s wait for a crisis to do an audit on systems because we learn from the ones that are working well and we anticipate trouble for the ones that aren’t. Suzy Gray (02:07): And Andy, that actually is a system. Andy Stanley (02:09): Exactly. Suzy Gray (02:10): Yeah. Because you need a system to have a regular rhythm of evaluating your systems. Otherwise the next thing is coming, the next thing is coming, the next thing is coming. It’s running in the background. You get the red light and you’re like, oh Andy Stanley (02:20): Yeah, now we have to stop. Suzy Gray (02:21): Now we have to stop, Andy Stanley (02:21): Pull over. Now there’s no progress. Suzy Gray (02:24): So creating a system of evaluation of your systems, not just of evaluation of employee feedback or all the other systems you need to put in place, but of your systems themselves can help you stay on track. Andy Stanley (02:35): Yeah, A system of evaluation is a system of evaluation. And again, the way we talk about it here, this is a system. We’ve said it a thousand times on the podcast, orchestrate, evaluate, orchestrate, evaluate, this is how we do it here, how do we make it better? So that is a system, and this is a good example based on what we talked about last time, that orchestrate and evaluate drives behaviors in this organization. Everybody knows everything gets evaluated (03:02): And we just evaluate. We don’t have to say, have you? No, if we had an event, there’s evaluation, we evaluate between services on Sunday, orchestrate evaluate. So that’s a system that drives the behavior that makes us better. So the point being number one is we don’t have to wait for a crisis to look at our systems. And I would say this too, to somebody who is new to an organization, you are given a job description or hopefully more a responsibility description. Here’s what you’re responsible for. One of the things no one is going to ask you to do is to do a deep dive into the current systems of your organization because you’re there to get something done or to solve a problem. So if you’re not proactive, you will not even be aware of the systems operating in the background, whether it’s an hr, manufacturing, what’s happening at a facility. So to understand the systems, that’s your responsibility. And chances are no one is ever going to say to you, Hey, as part of your responsibility, we want you to do a deep dive. Suzy Gray (04:05): Can you take a look at this? Andy Stanley (04:06): Or to even understand not to fix them or to even get involved. It may not be your direct responsibility, but to understand how things work. And the reason this is so important is if we’re not careful, when we begin to mess with a current system that we are responsible for, everything is connected. Everything is connected. And this is one of the fascinating things about systems. It’s one of the things we learned when we read the fifth discipline, the connectivity physically, organizationally, culturally, nationally. And this is why an economy is such a complicated thing. You push the dial up two notches in one area of an economy and it affects things in some other area bubbles six months later or a year later. Well, that same dynamic is at work in every organization. So as a leader, I am responsible not simply for the things right in front of me, but for the things that will be affected by the things right in front of me if I begin to make changes. So when it comes to making change, just awareness of how one system affects another system that affects another system, it is so important. Otherwise, we create problems unintentionally and then we blame whoever’s in charge of the thing that our thing impacted because we just weren’t paying attention. (05:25): So this is why this kind of evaluation is important. So don’t wait for a crisis to evaluate your systems. And as you evaluate your systems, make sure you ask the question, how does what we do here impact what they do there? (05:39): Because the last thing you want to do is to unintentionally create a problem. And this happens all the time. Again, just think about our national economy and why the Fed chairman is so careful and moves so slow because the ripple effect is massive. Same is true in family, same is true in an organization. So don’t wait for a crisis to evaluate. Number two is start small. There’s no need to try to overhaul everything at once. In fact, if you do, chances are you’re going to create one of those ripple effect problems. So pick a system that you feel like is causing you the most frustration and focus on improving that. Which leads to number three and these kind of go together is you’ve got to involve your team. Otherwise, the natural tendency is to look for the person that’s responsible and to blame them and to have kind of a one-on-one, Hey, you got to fix this. (06:29): So involving your team and asking the question with a team, let’s assume for a minute, this is a systems problem. What are the systems that are driving these behaviors? What are the systems that are facilitating a problem? What are the systems that are in the way? What are the systems we’re having to, this is important that we’re all, even though we don’t want to say it out loud, that we’re working around, that’s creating sideways energy because this just sits there and we have to work around it to get things done, involve the team. And by involving a team, it keeps you from moving towards blaming a person or even human nature, which we talked about last time. Suzy Gray (07:04): And it involves the people that probably have the clearest line of sight as to what the problems are to begin with because they’re the ones working around the system. Andy Stanley (07:11): Exactly. They’re the ones with the frustration. (07:13): And again, as I’m saying this, I’m thinking of two illustrations that are recent in our organization where I was so frustrated by something that was happening. And before I went charging in to find the person, I did some digging and I realized this individual was implementing something that had been put in place several years ago at this particular campus where I’m the lead pastor before I got here. And she’s just doing exactly what she was asked to do, but the results were frustrating to me. But I realized she’s, she gives herself an a, I am consistently doing the way, and I’m like, I am so sorry. We’re not going to do it that way anymore. And in this particular case, I know I’m being kind of vague, she was so relieved. She didn’t like the way she was doing what she was doing, but she was doing what she had been asked to do. Suzy Gray (08:04): She was implementing the system and Andy Stanley (08:05): She agreed, yes, this is not the best way. This is not efficient. It was actually an obstacle to something that we generally celebrate publicly in our organization. So again, here’s a system sitting in place. Nobody’s happy with it, nobody’s happy with the result. But somewhere way back, this was put in place and I didn’t even know about it. Well, again, now I’m looking in the mirror, this comes back on me and I’m so glad I didn’t go charging in there to be upset with some of the inefficiency that wasn’t an individual’s fault. Suzy Gray (08:34): The interesting thing about those two things together, that is the start small, you were frustrated by it. So you start with the biggest point of frustration or something that’s bothering you, and then you involve the team to go, why Andy Stanley (08:45): Is this happening? Suzy Gray (08:46): Yes, why is this happening? And realizing, oh, you’re doing what you were told to do, but it’s not giving the results that we want to get. And so that’s a perfect illustration of those two things working Andy Stanley (08:55): Together. So again, don’t wait for a crisis to begin evaluating systems and be aware of the systems that aren’t your direct responsibility. Start small, and as you start small, address it as a system, not a personnel problem. And to do that, you involve your team. And then the number four is, and I think everybody listening has some version of this in your organization, it’s commit to continuous improvement because a commitment to continuous improvement means we’re evaluating and improving our systems. Continuous improvement really is about systems almost a hundred percent of the time, even improving a product is about systems. Because improving a product means we’re going to address something that our product doesn’t address. And again, like everything else in the world, systems need regular maintenance. So make it a habit to review your systems on a regular basis, not just at the end of the year. And again, avoid blaming people. Suzy Gray (09:48): And I think that’s what’s so helpful about having one of the staff values be make it better. I mean, that is a continuous improvement value. Andy Stanley (09:56): And so then we have to ask, are there things systematically that keep people from making it better? And around and around we go, but this is the process. Suzy Gray (10:05): So Andy, keeping those four things in mind is so important. Are there any final thoughts? Andy Stanley (10:10): Let me add this real quick. This is a quote from John Kotter’s book Leading Change, and he writes, authoritarian decrees, which is what we tend to go to where the leader and things need to change. He said, authoritarian decrees are somewhat effective in maintaining existing systems, (10:29): But not transforming those systems into something better. And his point is, there are times I think when a leader has to put their foot down and say, Nope, we’re not doing that. I am all for consensus. But every once in a while there’s a moment of extraordinary clarity where it’s like, no. So his point is you use that kind of authority when you want to protect something that needs to be protected when you realize you’re smart enough to know, no, if we tweak this system, the ripple effect is not worth it. This is not something to mess with. The example that comes to mind for us is we do an annual generosity campaign called Be Rich, where we ask everybody to give $39 95 cents, and then we give it all away. And just to brag on our organization this past fall, we hit the a hundred million dollars mark. We have given away a hundred million dollars to local charities, not just faith-based, just the best charities in our communities, 80% in our communities, 20% internationally. Anyway, just a moment of celebration. But the point is, a few years ago, there was a group and honor staff who said, we think the Be Rich brand, that language is getting tired and we need to rethink changing the name of Be Rich. And I’m like, Nope, not even going to discuss it. I was absolutely sure we will not mess with a brand that has momentum. (11:48): Tired of talking about it, but that’s because we’re insiders. It’s a little bit of the curse of knowledge. So every once in a while to maintain a system, you use your authority, but then he writes this. But when the goal is behavior change, unless the boss is extremely powerful, authoritarian decrees often work poorly, even in simple situations, in complex organizations, this approach doesn’t work at all. (12:18): So leveraging our authority to protect something that’s in place, yes, using our authority to somehow bring about change by just making announcements and pronouncements, it rarely ever works because of our conversation systems drive the organization because systems drive behavior. So simply getting up and saying, from now on, never and from now on, always just way, yeah, that’s fine. Everybody’s going to go back to work and do what they’ve always done. And I say that because as leaders, again, there is a time to leverage the, hey, the buck stops with me. And so we’re not doing that. That will help you maintain. But if you want to bring about change, that is not the time to use the authority card. And I just think that’s a really good reminder as we think about systems in particular. Suzy Gray (13:05): That’s great. Well, Andy, that is so much great information for all of us as leaders to take away. Thanks so much for this conversation, and thank you to all of our listeners. That’s all the time we have on today’s Reverb episode. But before we go, we have one ask and that’s to subscribe. By subscribing you help us grow our audience, which allows us to keep improving and bringing you great content to help you as a leader go further faster. Also, be sure to visit andy stanley.com where you can download the leadership podcast application guide, which includes a summary of our discussion and questions for group reflection. And join us next week for another episode of the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Comments are closed.