By Allen Haynes • September 9, 2024

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Andy Stanley (00:03):
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further faster. I’m Andy Stanley, and before we get into today’s content, I wanted to thank Factor Meals for sponsoring this episode Factor Meals are ready to heat and ready to eat no hassle meals. And they are absolutely delicious. And I’ll be honest, I was a bit skeptical, but I am skeptical no longer every time Sandra is out of town. This is my dinner. So head on over to factor meals.com/alp 50 and then use code a SLP 50 to get 50% off your first box of food plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. And of course, Y-A-S-L-P. It’s the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. So again, go to factor meals.com/aslp 50 and use code ALP 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while this subscription is active. And now let’s dive into today’s podcast content.

Suzy Gray (01:08):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast reverb, a conversation that digs deeper into this month’s podcast topic, all designed to help leaders go even further faster. I’m your host, Susie Gray, and today we’re continuing our conversation from last week on how to unleash the hidden potential in yourself and others to achieve greater things. Now, before we get started, I would encourage you to listen to last week’s episode before diving into today’s because that episode sets the table for today’s deeper dive. And Andy, as we get started in our conversation, I’d love to drill down on something that Adam talked briefly about last week, and that was the idea that you should be a coach instead of a cheerleader or critic.

Andy Stanley (01:50):
And specifically he told us we needed to look for coaches and not just listen to cheerleaders or critics. For those of you who aren’t familiar with the book or didn’t hear last week’s discussion, the cheerleaders are basically the people who just applaud us no matter how well we do. I think I’ve mentioned before, early on in our marriage, Sandra decided, my wife decided she’s just going to be the cheerleader no matter what I do. It’s like that was the greatest ever. And really every Sunday she comes into the green room after our first service and she says, she just starts talking about how great it was and she watched it at home and she couldn’t wait to come and hear it live. And I know she can’t really mean that. I can’t be that consistent. I can’t be that great, but that’s just the role she plays and we all need that.

(02:36):
We all need the cheerleader, but you don’t learn much from the cheerleaders. So there’s the cheerleader and then the critics are the people who just attack. Adam talks about they sort of attack his worst or our worst self. And it’s not generally helpful information, it’s just criticizing. So cheerleaders are encouraging, critics are discouraging. So he talks about the fact that we need coaches. And the way that you find a coach is you ask a different question. Instead of asking for feedback, you ask for advice. And I thought this was one of the most helpful parts of our conversation last time. In fact, it makes me want to rethink basically how we do reviews in terms of either events or speakers or anything else. Even

Suzy Gray (03:16):
Employee evaluations.

Andy Stanley (03:17):
Even employee evaluations. Yeah. And as you think about sitting through a one-on-one or training people how to respond to a one-on-one to add this question, okay, what advice do you have? Instead of just reviewing what I already did, that’s water under the bridge. I can’t go back and redo that, but what advice do you have? And the fact that he ask people for advice who didn’t know how to do what he did, that’s not intuitive either. We think we just need to ask the experts, advice experts, but that’s not the case at all. So again, back to your question, we all have an opportunity in our leadership roles to model what it means to be coached and to coach. And coaching is basically offering people helpful advice and not just settling into, oh, that was great, that was great. Or just the drive by critic, that wasn’t terrible. Pick it apart. Do better next time. See you got to go. So I don’t know if I answered your question, but I just thought that part of our conversation was so helpful. It’s so unique. It’s

Suzy Gray (04:15):
So helpful. And I love what he said in the book that coaches help people recognize their strengths without becoming complacent. So not just writing on, Hey, I’m already good at this, but they also allow people to see their weaknesses and not be discouraged by them. And it reminds people, you’re pretty good today, but you’re capable of even greater tomorrow. And

Andy Stanley (04:34):
That’s the point of this whole book is finding the hidden potential in people and teasing that out or bringing it out and allowing them to see what you see. And this again, was a big part of the discussion last time and somewhat convicting to me as a leader because I think as a parent, I did a pretty good job of this. And I think most parents intuitively see the potential in their kids. And you just speak into it, speak into it, you can do this, you got this, you’re so smart. Don’t give up. Don’t give up. You’re so great. I would say if you could see yourself the way I see you,

Suzy Gray (05:02):
Yes, I know as a

Andy Stanley (05:03):
Parent, you too, right? And it’s true, right? We see that potential. Then we come to work and we just see performance, not potential. We see talent. And one of the things I learned from Charles Duhigg years ago was don’t just compliment people’s talent or comment on talent because they didn’t have anything to do with that. You comment on hard work and preparation. Well, that’s what coaching’s all about, because we get better based on preparation and not just highlighting or showcasing our talent. We get better by digging in and making it better. So the whole idea of asking the right questions and serving as a coach and in evaluations, performance reviews, think in terms of coach, not critic or just a cheerleader. It’s just a great category. And I think there’s something to learn both ways in terms of how we receive and ask for feedback and how we give it.

Suzy Gray (05:53):
Exactly. So one of the things that you and Adam didn’t get a chance directly talk about last week, but I both love and hate is a quote from the book that is the feeling that something is uncomfortable is a signal that you’re about to learn something new. That’s a signal we should not only pay attention to, but amplify, Adam gave a lot of examples last week about how he amplified uncomfortable situations so he could learn. And I think that’s a tough quote, but not only individually, but organizationally. Because in as individuals we don’t like discomfort, but as organizations, people don’t like feeling discomfort. People want to move past it or just push it aside. How do you lead an organization through discomfort?

Andy Stanley (06:40):
Yeah, when I was talking to him about this, this was on a personal level, but I’ll tell you another quote I thought of in just a minute. But first, here’s another quote that goes along with that that I love. He, in fact, I think I’m going to put this somewhere where I can look at it every once in a while. He said, becoming a creature of discomfort can unlock hidden potential. And the idea being a person that moves toward discomfort because when something’s uncomfortable, we move away from it. And he says, when you do that, you miss the opportunity to unlock hidden potential. Then he says, summoning the nerve to face discomfort is a character skill. And again, he had related so well, the relationship between character and hidden potential are exploring and exploiting our potential or the potential in other people. So then stepping back to the context you just introduced, Susie, when it comes to uncomfortable things in the organization, our tendency is to do corporately what we do personally.

(07:33):
Exactly. When something’s uncomfortable, I move away from it. I do not intuitively move toward it. And that’s always a mistake in leadership because we’re supposed to be the leaders, and if we’re not willing to move toward it, then the wrong people are going to move toward it or nobody’s going to move toward it, and it’s just going to sit there and get worse. Neglected things do not get better for the most part, especially in organizational life. They just don’t. They get stagnant. And I remember years ago when I interviewed Frank Blake, Frank was the CEO of Home Depot for about seven or eight years, and I asked him, how did he know it was time to go? And he said there were three things. And one of those three things I’ve never forgotten was, what was it? Just kidding. One of the things he said that I’ve never forgotten is he said he realized that he was not as quick to move toward, and he didn’t use this word, but this is our word.

(08:25):
He was not as quick to move toward the uncomfortable things corporately. He said, there was a time when I would see a problem or sense of problem, and I would just go there, we got to address this, we got to deal with it. He said, I found myself glancing over there basically and going, ah, I don’t know if I really want to get into all of that, right? It’s uncomfortable. And he said, that’s when I realized, wait a minute, if I’m going to lead this organization that is bad leadership and if I’m not willing to jump in and address it, I don’t have any business being here. And that was one of the three things that he took as a sign. It was time for him to leave. Well, most of our listeners, that’s not an option. They’re not at a season where they’re ready to leave, which means when we sense discomfort, an uncomfortable situation, an uncomfortable personnel situation, something we kind of heard about, we know we need to get more information. But if I get more information, that means I’m responsible with the information. I don’t want to be responsible with the information. I don’t really

Suzy Gray (09:20):
Want to learn that new thing. I don’t really want to see over

Andy Stanley (09:22):
There, right? Because then I have to do something about it. But we have to move toward it. But to Adam’s point, which I think is so powerful, he says, personally, when we move towards something that’s uncomfortable, we’re on the brink of learning something new and maybe uncovering potential in ourselves we didn’t know was there. Because what’s uncomfortable is also leads to a revelation sometimes. Well, organizationally, the same thing is true. There may be hidden potential within our organization that moving toward the thing that’s uncomfortable will help us discover. Now, at the big macro level, if all of us think back to 20 20, 20 21, we were all forced corporately to embrace something very uncomfortable. I think that most corporate leaders, the ones that stuck around, I mean a lot of people, they were out because they could get out, I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to learn new skills.

(10:16):
I don’t want to lead through this through this. I don’t want to face the aftermath of this. People who could bail, A lot of CEOs bailed, a lot of corporate people bailed, but the rest of us who stuck around, we were forced to embrace something very uncomfortable. And we learned so much. I mean, the last two days, I just did a whole lot of teleprompter work and I was able to get through it pretty quickly. Instead of rolling up, the staff said, oh, you did that so quickly. And I finally said to Sarah, I said, well, Sarah, 2020, I spent a year doing teleprompter work, perfecting

Suzy Gray (10:50):
This skill.

Andy Stanley (10:51):
Yeah, I was forced to communicate differently because of something I didn’t have any control over. But by moving toward it, embracing it and saying, okay, I can’t do it the way we used to do it, got to learn a new way. I learned a new skill and I feel like I’m better for it. So we were forced into it. But again, what’s uncomfortable, the natural tendencies to pull back, Adam says, Nope. If you do that, you may miss the opportunity to uncover something positive and there may be a new potential you would never explore or exploit otherwise. So the takeaway is right now, as we think about our organizations or we think about something we’re walking through personally that’s uncomfortable, instead of seeing it as a negative, it’s a potential positive. If we will face it, embrace it, not shy away from it, not make excuses for it, walk in it, walk through it on the other side.

(11:42):
You never know what’s on the other side. And again, there may not be a bow, but in most cases, especially organizationally, there’s always an opportunity to learn something new. And on the other side of new is growth. Growth. Well definitely either personal growth or organizational growth. And I know for us, when we have weighted into those things on the other side, we’re glad we did and we’re usually better for it. Definitely. Yeah. Back to our conversation in just a moment before that, a bit more about factor meals. As you know, for many of us, summer means fitness and factor meals are here to help. Again, factor meals, no prep, no mess meals, meet your health and wellness goals. And time for summer, thanks to the menu of chef crafted meals with options like Calorie Smart Protein Plus, and even keto, as you’ve heard me say before, factor meals are fresh.

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Suzy Gray (13:39):
Adam suggests that a rut is not a sign that you’ve tanked, and a plateau is not a cue that you’ve peaked. These are signals that it may be time to turn around and find a new route. And I love the idea of adopting this mentality. How do you feel like you’ve faced plateaus?

Andy Stanley (13:59):
Well, this was very convicting to me when I was 40. My response to this would be very different than my initial intuitive response in my current season, because at some point, usually when people hit 40, there’s something about the forties. There’s something that clicks where you stop thinking about how old you are, and you begin thinking about how much time you have left somewhere 40 to 50, there’s just a switch flips. It’s like, oh, I’m not thinking about how, oh, suddenly I’m counting down backwards for the first time. Not necessarily healthy, but there is something healthy about that. So when I think about personal plateaus or personal ruts, I think the older we get and the more seasoned we are as leaders, the tendency is always to think, I’m an old dog. I don’t need to learn new tricks. I don’t need to do something different.

(14:50):
I don’t need to learn anything different. And that’s a lid. That’s immediately a lid. It’s unnecessary. And some of the greatest breakthroughs have been with people who would have been considered beyond their prime because they didn’t buy into that way of thinking. And again, back to the point of his book, regardless of what season of life we’re in or how old we are, there is always potential. And this is the point of his book, if we don’t explore it, we’ll never be able to leverage it. And if we don’t leverage it, we are not living up to our full potential. And every listener leading. If I were to ask you, Hey, do you want to maximize your potential? Everybody says yes, well then you can’t be discouraged by the ruts, and you can’t be deceived by the plateaus because there’s always more potential to explore.

(15:32):
And this goes back to the other thing he talked about having a network of people around us that service coaches and cheerleaders and critics, because those are the people that are going to keep us from becoming so content that we just coast and you don’t want to coast. That’s why I love being around. You don’t want to coast. I don’t want to be deceived by this season of my life. So learning new things and trying new things and wading into what’s uncomfortable, that’s part of it. But again, the more successful you are, the more options you have. And one of the options is I don’t want to deal with it. One of the options is I don’t want to learn it. One of the options is I’ll let somebody else

Suzy Gray (16:08):
Handle that.

Andy Stanley (16:10):
And where it begins for a lot of us, and this is a relatively new thing culturally speaking, is technology. Once upon a time, I was the go-to person for fixing things, restarting things. Let me see that hand. That to me, give me that, oh, I can do that. And now it’s like, Hey, somebody fix it. I don’t want to deal with this. I don’t even want to learn how to fix this. I just want it to be fixed. And when I sense myself going there, that’s kind of a red flag for me. It’s like, no, Andy, you are smart enough to learn how to do this. Don’t pull back. Now again, part of it, there are things we need to delegate, but again, that’s kind of that whole technology thing. Everybody listening, which side of that plateau you’re on. So anyway, listen to that voice on the inside that says, I can’t do this because who knows

Suzy Gray (16:58):
What you’re giving. I love the example from the book. He talks about Ra Dickey, and I’m not a big baseball fan, but obviously I’ve heard the name. He’s a famous pitcher, and I didn’t know his story until I read the book. And he was minor leagues and then up to the majors and then back down to the minors, and then up to the majors and the journey of, he could have easily have said, okay, now I’m just too old to be a pitcher. But he started to learn how to throw a really great knuckle ball, and it was a game changer. And it extended his career,

Andy Stanley (17:28):
Literally. It changed literally a game changer. But that was his thing. That

Suzy Gray (17:31):
Was his thing. And it extended his career in ways it wouldn’t have been possible if he didn’t change direction. And it allowed him to change what looked like, Hey, I’m plateaued and done to, I’m going to be one of the greatest. So I just think you never know what’s on the other side of that decision, not to just be okay with a plateau

Andy Stanley (17:50):
Or a rut. And the other great takeaway from the illustration, and there are a couple of these in the book, is I think for all of our podcast listeners, when you begin to hear people say that about you, or we have that self-talk that says, well, after all, well after all, look at what I’ve done or look what I’ve accomplished, or I’m in this season. As soon as we sort of absorb that self-talk, because other people over time will begin to expect less of us, and we begin to expect less of ourselves, ourselves, and the moment we start that slide, things are not going to get better. We’re not going to become more intuitive. We’re not going to learn anything new necessarily, because in some sense, there’s a sense in which we don’t have to. But that’s a differentiator between a great leader who goes on to do great things in a season of life where people don’t expect it. And the ones that are like, Hey, I’ve done my thing. I don’t need to do anything else. Going back to Covid, there are leaders who had an opportunity and bailed, and there are leaders who came out on the other side and realized, oh wait, there are things we would have never done or been able to do if it had not been for this giant disruption. So anyway,

Suzy Gray (19:00):
Growth was on the other side of that discomfort. Well, there are just so many things in the book that were so challenging and so helpful, and so we’re going to link to the book in the show notes, and we just encourage our listeners to take a read for themselves. But that is actually all the time we have for this reverb episode. Andy, thanks so much for digging deeper into the topic of Unleashing Hidden Potential. And to our listeners, we want to thank you for joining us. And before we leave, we have one ask, and that is to subscribe. By subscribing you help us grow the audience, which allows us to keep improving, bringing you great guests like Adam Grant, and great content to help you as a leader grow. Also, be sure to visit Andy stanley.com/podcast where you’ll find more resources to help you as a leader go further, faster.

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