REVERB 24: The Stress Paradox—Small Habits, Big Leadership Impact Transcript

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Suzy Gray (00:03):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast reverb, A conversation designed to help leaders go even further faster by digging deeper into this month’s episode. I’m your host, Suzy Gray. Last week, Andy had a fascinating conversation with Dr. Sharon Bergquist about stress, not just how to avoid it, but how the right kind, the good kind of stress can actually fuel our growth. There’s one part of that conversation and her book in general that was so fascinating and I really want to dig deeper on, and that’s the role that stress plays in our physical health, from food diversity to exercise. There’s so many ways to leverage good stress to live a longer, healthier, and happier life, but it doesn’t always feel that that’s easy to accomplish since those things take time and intentionality. Andy, there’s so much in that book that was actionable and practical, and I just feel like we all left with so much to do and think about.

Andy Stanley (00:57):
I told Sandra, I said, of all the guests we’ve had on the podcast, I can’t think of anyone I’ve interviewed that left me with more things to do that I can’t quit thinking about that I implemented immediately because of the template that she gave us as it relates to stress and our success and stress and our health stress and everything.

Suzy Gray (01:19):
Yeah,

Andy Stanley (01:20):
Sandra and I, we’ve been working out, we’ve worked out with a trainer for years. Then our trainer moved, but still sends us stuff to do

Suzy Gray (01:27):
Workouts.

Andy Stanley (01:27):
Yeah, I mean, she just moved an hour away, but one of the things she told us forever is you have to rest one minute between every single exercise and we do high impact training, but I don’t. I’m like, no, I want to get this done. Let’s be efficient. I give myself so much credit for even doing it, but after listening to Dr. Berkowitz, that minute became maybe the most important minute or the most important minutes in my exercise routine, and that’s just one example. So if you’re listening to this and you didn’t listen, if you didn’t hear that interview, you really need to go back. But it really was profound at multiple levels in terms of work routine, exercise routine, food routine, everything, everything. Before we started, you said it impacted things you and Jason are doing. What, I dunno if you can share.

Suzy Gray (02:17):
Yeah. We actually listened to the book driving to New York, and we were listening to the thing about the 10 hour fasting and really creating very specific fasting intervals and how long that it has to be for your body to actually your cell at the cellular level.

Andy Stanley (02:34):
At the cellular level. That was what was so fascinating.

Suzy Gray (02:36):
Exactly. And we both looked at each other and went, we can do this. We can do this now and immediately, and we have access to asuna at the Y that we work out at. Why don’t we use the sauna? That’s the, it’s a waste

Andy Stanley (02:48):
Waste of time. We got stuff to do.

Suzy Gray (02:49):
I know, right? And so I loved what she said about the Japanese study with the people that walked three minutes and did fast walking for three minutes versus the people that just did their pace, and how much better the people that did that interval training. And I usually do HIIT two days a week, but it was like, should I do this more? Should I be doing only a week intervals?

Andy Stanley (03:10):
Okay. So that walking thing, I know we got to get to the script. And for our podcast listeners, bear with us for a moment. So Sandra and I walk, we have this incredible place where we can walk and there’s a side road that goes down a hill and we just don’t go down there. It’s a dead end. Then you have to come back and we’ve done this walk for years. So we were talking about the book as we walked and we get to this sort of off ramp, a gravel road. It’s just wonderful. And she said, let’s walk down there and run back up. Now, Sandra never runs. I used to run all the time, 10 Ks, half marathons to my back, couldn’t take it anymore. And I’m like, are you kidding? She goes, no. I said, no, this would be great. It forces us to break this routine. So we walked down this hill, it’s not super steep, but we get to the bottom and ran back to the top. We could definitely couldn’t sing. We could barely talk. But again, the point being just the impact of that conversation, not to change routines for us, but to tweak some of our routines because of the science, some of which I’ve heard, but not what she talked about at the cellular level. It was fascinating.

Suzy Gray (04:21):
So helpful. And you guys, I mean you and Sandra eat so well, so the whole idea of the food diversity and the food toxins.

Andy Stanley (04:27):
Yeah, the food toxin discussion. Unbelievable. It was

Suzy Gray (04:30):
Unbelievable. So yeah.

Andy Stanley (04:31):
We eat so many blueberries.

Suzy Gray (04:33):
Well, you have a blueberry bush

Andy Stanley (04:34):
Multiple,

Suzy Gray (04:35):
See?

Andy Stanley (04:35):
Yeah,

Suzy Gray (04:36):
It’s perfect. You knew all along.

Andy Stanley (04:37):
Yeah. And then dark chocolate

Suzy Gray (04:39):
And dark. Well, yeah, who doesn’t want dark chocolate?

Andy Stanley (04:41):
We tried to grow that. We can’t. Alright, lots of good options. We have a script. Let’s get to our script.

Suzy Gray (04:46):
Well, there’s so many ways to go with this conversation.

Andy Stanley (04:53):
Let’s talk about how it relates to leaders because she and I didn’t really get to that much, but there’s direct correlation.

Suzy Gray (04:59):
And I mean that’s a good place to start. What happens when we try to lead while neglecting our physical body? The problem is it’s easy to go, oh, I don’t have time, or I can’t do this.

Andy Stanley (05:07):
Well, we don’t have time,

Suzy Gray (05:08):
But if we don’t do this, what’s at risk?

Andy Stanley (05:11):
Well, and the thing is, everything that I put in my notes, it’s so obvious, almost doesn’t need stating, but sometimes it needs stating. And if nothing else, I’m going to get a lot out of this conversation. But I mean, come on. If you ignore your body, you undermine your own future.

Suzy Gray (05:28):
That’s right.

Andy Stanley (05:28):
You’s no future without a body. When I was in seminary, in graduate school studying in theology, one of our favorite professors would say I’ve, it was mostly men in the room. So it was men. He would say men. Not many women in seminary back then he would say, men, I’ve never seen anyone with a spiritual ministry without a physical body. And so it is true, we undermine our own future. Ignoring our health is robbing ourselves a potential to do the things that we want to do in the future. I saw this cartoon, this was years ago at a gym and it was a cartoon of a doctor and he’s in an examining room with a patient and the doctor says to the patient, so Mr. Thompson, what works better for you and your schedule exercising one hour a day or being dead 24 hours a day? It’s like,

Suzy Gray (06:15):
I think I’ll take that.

Andy Stanley (06:15):
Yeah. And while we’re talking about health, ignoring our health, we undermine our own future, both our mental health and our physical health. And both are so important and both require a routine and both require this positive stress, but the negative stress hits us mentally and physically, and so we become anti-stress. And that was the value of this book, the Stress Paradox, that there’s a way to leverage the positive stress and all of our podcast listeners, you need, and you know this, you need some kind of fitness routine, a mental routine and a physical routine. The physical routines are easy to find, but in terms of mental routine, and she didn’t talk about this specifically, and many of you listening know more about this than I do, but we all have sort of a, this sounds so trite, kind of a happy place,

(07:00):
A place that refuels us mentally. Years ago I heard Rick Warren say, Hey, if you work with your hands, then you’re off time. You need to work with your mind. If you work with your mind, then you’re off time. You need to work with your hands. I just remember thinking, that is so helpful. And the reason he said it, I was actually at his house and he showed me his garden and I’m like, Rick Warren, the gardener.

Suzy Gray (07:26):
I know.

Andy Stanley (07:26):
I can’t picture it. And he said, no, no. He said, because I work all day, I do mind work. He prepares and studies and speaks and he’s like, yeah, come home and here’s my garden. I’m like, that makes so much sense.

Suzy Gray (07:39):
Wow.

Andy Stanley (07:39):
So everybody needs some sort of anti routine that helps our mental health anyway. So the point is, if we don’t get this right and if we don’t find the routines, if we don’t figure out how to leverage positive stress, we’re working against ourselves. Definitely. And I think everybody listening, including the two of us, we’ve experienced that

Suzy Gray (08:00):
Definitely.

Andy Stanley (08:00):
Because we love what we do and nobody loves to do the things they need to do. So anyway.

Suzy Gray (08:06):
Well, it’s interesting you talk about mental health because I do think exercise in particular, there is something that is a mental boost. Totally, yes. When you walk out of the gym and you’re like, I did it. It was hard and I did it. And you’re walking out and you’re like, best hour of my day. When you’re walking in, maybe it doesn’t feel that way, but when you’re walking out just the mental boost of one, it’s accomplishment. But two, there’s endorphins.

Andy Stanley (08:31):
Okay, endorphins is so important, but let me back up because she didn’t talk about this specifically, but you just touched on something based on the science, the discipline of forcing ourselves to walk into a gym does something to ourselves. Because anytime we do a hard thing for a moment or a hard thing for a period of time, an hour and then step back. So even the mental exercise of doing something, making ourselves do something we don’t want to do, there is value in that, not just what we do when we get there.

Suzy Gray (09:05):
Absolutely.

Andy Stanley (09:06):
Because that’s sort of the seesaw of this whole thing she talked about that was so helpful.

Suzy Gray (09:10):
So helpful.

Andy Stanley (09:10):
And you’re exactly right. After we do it, Sandra and I say all the time, why is it so hard to convince ourselves to go to go do it? And it’s in our basement. We don’t even have to drive anywhere. It is ridiculous. And so we have this joke at home where I say, I’m just going to go down there and stretch. I’m not going to go down there and do hard things because I know if I get down there, I’m going to do it. If you’re going to spend the time, you’re going to get in and do it. Exactly. Yeah. Probably most people listening, we have very educated, disciplined audience we have found, and so you probably all have got this down, but it was just, again, the science behind this was so motivating.

Suzy Gray (09:49):
Well, why do you think? Because I mean, we all listen to what Dr. Berk was said and what we’re talking about, and we’re like, yeah, of course you need to do that. But why is it such a struggle as leaders in particular?

Andy Stanley (10:00):
Yeah. Well, you sent me that question ahead of time, and here’s some of the things I wrote down. And again, our podcast listeners, you probably have a good answer to this as well. I think part of it is I pay just in my work, and I think for everybody, we pay an immediate price for not getting everything done at work. There’s an immediate price to pay. In some cases there’s an immediate reward. Sometimes reward is later. But if I don’t get my work done, and in my case every seven days is Sunday, so I can’t postpone Sunday,

Suzy Gray (10:30):
It’s coming whether you like it or not.

Andy Stanley (10:32):
So there’s an immediate price to pay for not getting everything done at work, but there’s an eventual price to pay for neglecting my health and for all of us, immediate tends to win out over eventual. So this is part of the struggle. There’s something right in front of me that if it doesn’t get done, there’s a price to pay.

Suzy Gray (10:51):
Yeah, you’ll feel it. Yeah.

Andy Stanley (10:52):
Yeah. Either I’m going to have to do it later, I’m going to eat up my weekends doing it. And the other thing too, kind of a general principle, we all tend to economize on what’s most important and prioritize what’s most urgent. That we economize on the things that are most important. And I’ll give you some examples a minute, and then we prioritize what’s most urgent because it’s urgent. And here’s the overarching principle behind all of this. We can cram for what’s most urgent. You think about the things that are most urgent. You can cram, but you can’t cram for what’s most important. It’s the law of the final exam versus the law of the harvest. I mean, you can cram for an exam, you can’t cram for a harvest, but when it comes to the harvest, you got to plant at a certain time. You got to water, you got to fertilize, you got to, got to wait. Exactly. It’s those small deposits over time. So what happens is we end up trying to cram for the things that are most important. It never works, never can work. And our small deposits over time, sometimes for the things that are most urgent where we could cram, I mean, I’ll just admit I have hurt myself rushing exercise.

Suzy Gray (12:00):
Definitely.

Andy Stanley (12:01):
Yeah,

Suzy Gray (12:01):
You definitely, it is an easy thing to do.

Andy Stanley (12:03):
Yeah. But I always get hurt when I rush.

(12:06):
So I’m trying to, got to get in. I’m trying to economize on something that is law of the harvest, where at the same time, when we get the rhythm of the things that are most important in our lives, we have more energy and mental capacity to cram for the things that are urgent, that are urgent because we’re going to get those things done. So anyway, again, you can cram for an exam. You can’t cram for of the harvest and the law of the harvest, planting, fertilizing, watering, waiting. The law of the harvest really is the operating system behind what’s most important or what should be most important because the law of the harvest is what determines the health of our marriages, our relationships with our kids. It determines our health in most cases. It determines our finances. Again, it’s those small deposits over time. In my line of work, unfortunately through the years I’ve met with so many men who want a quick fix for a marriage, want a quick fix for their relationship with their teenage son or daughter. People come in, they want a quick fix for their finances, and they’re basically saying, help me. Show me. Give me a shortcut. I want to cram,

Suzy Gray (13:10):
Show me how to make up for these 16 years. I’ve not invested relationship with my son or daughter.

Andy Stanley (13:14):
You cannot. You just can’t do it.

Suzy Gray (13:18):
Can’t do it.

Andy Stanley (13:18):
So anyway, law of the harvest, law of the final exam, we got to get things in proper order. And again, when we’re taking care of our mental health and physical health, we are in a better position for all those other things anyway.

Suzy Gray (13:31):
Definitely. For sure. The reality is our choices about our health don’t just affect us, do they?

Andy Stanley (13:37):
No. I mean, everybody that has to work with us has to deal with our bodies, with our mental stability, with our temper, with our energy. I mean, some of the best leadership advice I’ve ever received was a leader who said, the best thing you can bring to your team, Andy, is your energy. And you’ve worked with me for so long. You’ve met with me when I had energy and when I didn’t, and when I don’t, you have to compensate for it. Sitting there, I don’t know. We’ve never talked about this, so let’s talk about it in front of the whole audience. You’re sitting there thinking, he’s not having a great day. I’ve got what you’re having to navigate.

Suzy Gray (14:16):
What things do I just want to wait to ask for the next time we meet?

Andy Stanley (14:19):
Yeah. And same with Diane. My admin assistant is like, let’s not talk about the calendar anymore.

Suzy Gray (14:23):
Let’s not talk about that today.

Andy Stanley (14:25):
Well, how unfair. So it’s really selfish, but since I’m the boss, you’re not going to say that. You’re just going to think it until we are talking about it. Live with an audience anyway. Okay. But lemme stay on this for just a second. And again, for all of our leadership podcasts, if you’re engaged or you’re married, this is so important. In fact, I did a whole series on this called the Responsibles, refusing to take care of our health is so selfish because who do I expect to take responsibility for my irresponsibility later on? Sandra, who’s going to take care of you, Sandra? Exactly. It’s so irresponsible. And when I talked about this in a message, there was like a low hum. I knew that every single married couple, one of them wanted to look at the other and say, see there,

Suzy Gray (15:12):
Listen,

Andy Stanley (15:13):
I keep trying to encourage you to exercise or encourage you. You’re like, well, whatever. But for better, for worse, that’s part of our marriage vows. For many of us. You’re actually planning for worse definitely if you’re not taking care of your mental health and your physical health. So if you’re neglecting your health, I dare you, this is kind of extreme to go home today and tell your spouse, Hey, I’m not going to prioritize my mental and physical health, but I expect you to take care of me later when the crop doesn’t come in,

Suzy Gray (15:46):
When the chips fall where they’re going

Andy Stanley (15:48):
Through. And none of us would do that. But that is, it’s really

Suzy Gray (15:51):
Effectively what you’re doing.

Andy Stanley (15:52):
Yes, it is not love. So the other place I’ve seen this play out, our trainer who I mentioned earlier, she’s in her mid sixties and she can deadlift. I saw her deadlift like 350 pounds. Yeah.

Suzy Gray (16:06):
Oh wow.

Andy Stanley (16:06):
And she’s this little petite woman. It’s like crazy. Anyway, she told me when we first met her, she said, most of the people who come to my studio are grandparents. Some of them new grandparents who realize they cannot get down on the floor and play with their, they won’t be able to get down on the floor and play with their grandchildren when their grandchildren are not babies anymore. Or men who come in and say, I went to my grandson’s ball game and I sat down in the low fold up chair and somebody had to pull me up. Wow. So again, you neglect over time and then you pay a price. That was very motivating to me, honestly. I’m like, okay.

Suzy Gray (16:44):
Yeah, because you have four grandkids now.

Andy Stanley (16:46):
You have a lot to play with. I found this, I follow all these crazy Instagram accounts now as it relates to all this stuff. And so there’s two or three ways to get down on the floor and back up without using your hands, but it requires flexibility. So that became one of my new goals is watch this, Sandra. No hands,

Suzy Gray (17:06):
No hands.

Andy Stanley (17:07):
Alright,

Suzy Gray (17:07):
That’s good.

Andy Stanley (17:07):
But again, to do less than that, it’s selfish.

Suzy Gray (17:11):
And can be irresponsible.

Andy Stanley (17:12):
And it is the law of the harvest. You lose your flexibility. You cannot cram. So anyway.

Suzy Gray (17:18):
So let’s make this really, really practical as we close this episode for our audience. Where’s the best place to start? In other words, if longevity is the goal, what’s the best getting starting habits that we can build today?

Andy Stanley (17:30):
One of the things that we have illustrated without saying is information is so inspiring.

(17:36):
So to get started, you could read the book we’ve been talking about the Stress paradox by Dr. Berkowitz. It’ll motivate you. Information is inspiring and motivating, but secondly, for those of you who have a routine, stick with it and make sure you are not economizing on the routine. Again, you can cram for an exam. You can’t cram for these small deposits over time. So if you’re going to do the work, especially physical exercise, do the work, right? Get somebody to make sure that you’re doing it right. Don’t just go in there and feel better because you showed up at the gym. And I think most of our listeners understand that. And then the other thing is some sense of accountability as it relates to these things. Whether it’s somebody that we exercise with, somebody that we’re in a book club with, somebody that we walk with, that sense of companionship and the habits that make the biggest difference. Again, that’s the advantage of having a trainer is somebody’s waiting for you and somebody’s going to make you do the work. And we all want to say, oh, I don’t need that. I’m disciplined, but it’s

Suzy Gray (18:33):
So helpful.

Andy Stanley (18:34):
It’s so helpful. Even if for a short period of time it can be expensive. But to make sure we’re doing those things right is super important. And then I think just to remember, and I’ve said it three times, we can’t cram for the things that are most important. So urgent is going to feel like it should be the priority, but the things that are most important rarely feel like a priority. But if we don’t do the work in terms of how we’re investing in leadership at work or investing in family at home, there’s a price to pay for that. And this is the really bad news in all this. There are some things that you can’t make up for. There are some things you can’t get back. There are some things that really can’t be fully repaired, just patched up. So now is the time to dig in to create these habits, commit to them for the sake of what’s happening in the marketplace and for the sake of what’s happening at home.

Suzy Gray (19:31):
That’s so good. Well, Andy, thank you so much for having this conversation. And thanks to all of our listeners. If you found this helpful, be sure to leave a review or pass it along to another leader. And as always, subscribe wherever you listen. And check out Andy stanley.com/podcast for more resources to help you go even further faster.