Leading with Gratitude Transcript

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Andy Stanley (00:02):
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further faster. And before we jump into today's content, I want to tell you about a special offer from our friends at belay. If you're ready to scale your business, you're also probably dreading the extra hours you'll need to maintain it, right? I mean, after all, going bigger means working overtime. Going overtime means less time at home. So belay has a solution because the best leaders know that setting boundaries doesn't hinder growth. Actually setting boundaries often accelerates growth as we talk about all the time on the podcast. So when you're overworked, you aren't operating at your best too many hours, make an unfocused, foggy, stretch, too thin leader, we know that and Belay wants to help you fix that. And with their expert, US-based assistants, you can bring margin back into your life.

(00:50):
Belays assistants are flexible, they're remote, and they are matched to you specifically so you can get the exact support you need to focus on vision, mission, and scaling. And Belay is offering a free resource to help you craft a balanced schedule. They call it the 40 hour CEO Work week guide. It includes goal setting, tools, templates, and an ideal work week builder. So if you want to learn how the top CEOs do, download this resource today to claim this offer. Just text the word Andy to 5, 5, 1, 2, 3. That's A N D Y to 5, 5, 1, 2, 3. And now let's jump into today's content. Today we're talking about something that is incredibly important for leaders, something we all want to get right? Something I think many of us assume we do get right, but oftentimes we miss specifically, we're going to talk about gratitude. And the reason this is such a big deal and the reason that we miss it, and by we, I'm including me, the reason we miss it is that we are wired for the future.

(01:49):
We love momentum. We love progress. Moving forward, we wake up thinking about what's next, what needs to get done today, what needs to get done this week? Consequently, we think very little at times about what's been done. I've talked about this on the podcast before. I have a hard time slowing down to look back to celebrate. People have to remind me, Hey Andy, let's celebrate what we've done. And we're always asking, where do we go from here? How do we get there? What are the obstacles? All the stuff we talk about. And because of that, because of the demands of tomorrow and because they quickly overshadow the accomplishments of today, both our accomplishments and the accomplishments of the people around us, it's easy not to stop and express gratitude after all what's been done, pales in significance to what needs to be done. And if we're not careful, we unintentionally.

(02:34):
And I think it's always unintentional. We unintentionally leave something important in our wake. And it isn't just unfinished projects or missed opportunities. It's people specifically. We leave behind our gratitude for the people around us. We feel it, but we don't always express it. And that's where today's conversation comes in. So here's the big idea we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about how unexpressed gratitude is perceived and felt as in gratitude. And feeling gratitude for the people around us is not the same as expressing it. And joining me as always to unpack this very important topic is my co-host Suzy Gray, for whom I am so grateful if I haven't told you lately.

Suzy Gray (03:19):
Thank you, Andy.

Andy Stanley (03:20):
So thanks for joining me today on the podcast. Again,

Suzy Gray (03:24):
Thank you as

Andy Stanley (03:24):
Always.

Suzy Gray (03:25):
That's actually a really important point you just made.

Andy Stanley (03:28):
That was a long introduction. I'm sorry that kind of went on and on. Did you wonder if I was going to include you at all? I was like, Hey, do you see me over here? Speaking of ingratitude, he's just going to talk the whole time. Okay.

Suzy Gray (03:40):
Well, Andy, thank you. And let's start there because this is a pretty bold statement. Unexpressed gratitude is perceived as ingratitude. In other words, if we aren't saying the words, thank you, it comes across that we're not even grateful at all, right?

Andy Stanley (03:55):
Yes. And it's easy to forget. In the whirlwind of organizational life, every time somebody shows up and gives you their time, their energy, their creativity or their loyalty, there's really a sense in which you owe them something or I owe them something because they could have taken that time and energy somewhere else. And a paycheck is great, but a paycheck doesn't cover that debt. At the end of the day, as we've talked about before, everybody's a volunteer. Everybody who works with us, I mean people on the payroll staff, they're all volunteers. I mean, everybody gets a paycheck, but they could at any moment say, I'm done being here. I'm going to go volunteer. I'm going to go work somewhere else. And I think this is part of the challenge. And I think for some leaders, they're more bent this way than others. In our minds, it's easy to say, well, they're just doing what I'm paying them to do. But there is no emotional connection between my hard work today and money that is automatically deposited into my checking account Five days from now. There is no emotional connection.

Suzy Gray (05:02):
So true.

Andy Stanley (05:03):
Now, in the mind of the boss or the employer, it's like, well, what do I have to think them? I'm paying them, but emotionally, there's no connection. I go home tired today. I don't think, oh, the gratitude is going to show up in my checking account. It's not expressed as gratitude. So we fool ourselves, trick ourselves. We just miss the need for that connection. And the only way to fill that gap or to make up really for that deficit is to say thank you, is to recognize the hard work and say something. It's not enough to pay. You got to say, I just made that up.

Suzy Gray (05:37):
Oh, there you go.

Andy Stanley (05:38):
Yeah, but isn't that true?

Suzy Gray (05:40):
It's so true.

Andy Stanley (05:41):
Maybe the super snarky person says, well, that's what you're paying me for. But most people don't say, you don't need to say thank you. There's a paycheck coming in a week. No. Everybody's like, no, thank you. Oh, yo, you're welcome. Right?

Suzy Gray (05:52):
Definitely. And honestly, it has a ripple effect. That gratitude has a ripple effect,

Andy Stanley (05:56):
Yes

Suzy Gray (05:57):
And it changes the way you show up at work when you know that not only, yes, I'm doing a work and I'm getting paid for it, but I'm doing work that is valued by the people that are employing me and that the work that I'm doing is making a difference.

Andy Stanley (06:10):
And people want to know that the people they report to recognize it and appreciate it and are better for it. So again, of course, paycheck is part of this, but at the emotional level in terms of galvanizing loyalty, not just to the person, but to the organization and what we do, this is super important. And here's, I think the other dynamic at play that's invisible. We are all by nature acceptance magnets. Now, you may remember this phrase from way back because for those of you who don't know, when I met Suzy rk, my co-host, she was in the ninth grade, ninth grade, and I was doing a bible study in a home. And so we've known each other for many years. And one of the things I used to talk to high school students all the time about is, you're an acceptance magnet. We are all drawn to environments and to people where we feel accepted, we're not necessarily drawn in the right direction. But if whoever accepts us first or pays attention to us first, we naturally we're inclined to move in that direction.

Suzy Gray (07:07):
Your heart moves toward acceptance.

Andy Stanley (07:08):
Exactly, which can be positive or negative. It can be dangerous. This is why we tell parents to tell their kids, Hey, your friends determine the direction and quality of your life. And you don't really choose your friends. You gravitate toward acceptance. We think we choose our friends. No, you gravitate toward acceptance. And I guess in some ways the adult version of that is we gravitate toward recognition within the context of work. Gratitude is recognition, and recognition is acceptance. And so we gravitate toward the people who are grateful, who express their gratitude because they're not just making a comment about what we've done, they're making a comment about us. So a culture, and this is what we're going to talk about, a culture where gratitude is in short supply, undermines that whole dynamic that I'm being drawn to the environment and drawn to the people that basically are accepting me.

(08:00):
And acceptance, again, being communicated through gratitude. And going back to what I just said, when leaders hide behind either intentionally or maybe unintentionally, when we hide behind, well, I pay them. I don't need to thank them. They're just doing their job. We miss this important relational human dynamic that we are. Acceptance magnets, gratitude is an expression of recognition, which is an expression of acceptance. And so this is super important in the workplace, but it's not necessary. Again, a paycheck will ensure that people bring us their hands. But expressed gratitude, and I don't know if I'm overstating this, Suzy, but I just think expressed gratitude is the currency of the heart. That's how you capture people's heart. I recognize what you've done and I'm grateful for it. I recognize that you're not just doing a job, you're helping me. You're making me more successful. So consequently, as we set up top unexpressed, gratitude communicates opposite. Unexpressed gratitude communicates. I could have done this without you. I mean, I could have done this without you because you're expendable. If it wasn't you, it would be someone else. And first of all, that's not even true. But secondly, you're just not going to capture people's hearts that way, right?

Suzy Gray (09:12):
Yeah. And I think honestly, having an environment where you are appreciated and gratitude is expressed is just more enjoyable. It makes it a better place to work.

Andy Stanley (09:23):
And again, going back to what we said about culture, the leader who is quick to express gratitude opens the door for others to do the same. And we've experienced that here. When the person at the top is quick to express gratitude, it just encourages other people to express gratitude. In some ways, it's contagious. And again, we miss it because I think we're not wired to look back and to think back and to pause because organizational life is just forward

Suzy Gray (09:51):
Relentless.

Andy Stanley (09:52):
Yes, it's relentless. And before we go to your next question, because you sent me the questions ahead of time, but that means I've had time to think about it.

(10:01):
Here's something else to think about. And this is unfortunate, and it may come as a surprise. For those of you who are listening who answer to a boss or a manager, here's something that may surprise you. The further up you go on an org chart, the less likely it is that anyone is going to thank you, and nobody thinks about this. In other words, the further up you go in the organization, the less likely it is that anyone is. There are fewer people who are going to thank you because generally speaking, people perceive the people above them as not needing anything. They don't need my gratitude. They don't need anything from me. Look at where they are. So you would think it'd be the opposite, that the further up you go, the more gratitude you get. It is just the opposite because employees don't perceive the boss or the manager to be doing anything for them. See how that works?

(10:55):
They perceive that they're the ones who are owed the debt of gratitude, not the other way around. And of course, the people in charge see it differently. I mean, you should thank me for hiring you and paying you and providing benefits for you and on and on and on. And occasionally, occasionally an employee. And this is what made me think about it. An employee will thank me for our benefits package, but it's rare. And when do you think they thank me for the benefits package? When they need it, when they need it, right? They've had a really difficult pregnancy or delivery, or a baby's in NICU or a family member has had cancer and it's a long, ongoing, expensive, and they see what this would've cost them. And they're like, thank you, thank you, thank you. So other than sort of those catastrophic things, gratitude generally does not move naturally up any more than it naturally moves down.

Suzy Gray (11:46):
Interesting.

Andy Stanley (11:46):
But somebody has to set the pace and somebody has to break that cycle. And I think ultimately those of us who are in leadership are the ones to do that. So gratitude works both ways. So those of you who report to a boss or manager, again, I'm just ask yourself, when is the last time you expressed gratitude to the person that you report to or work for? And just don't fall into the trap of thinking that they owe you, but you don't owe them. Because gratitude works both ways and it impacts the culture both ways. So don't fall into the trap of thinking that they owe you, but you don't owe them. Because we all owe the people around us a debt of gratitude. And we should all pause every once in a while to express it. In fact, as a point leader, this is what a big deal it is to me.

(12:31):
And you can speak into my insecurity after I say what I'm about to say, Suzy, if you want to. But I literally, when I get thank you notes from staff, I keep them. I have them. And I have this little room behind my office where I have some books and bookshelves and there are just cards and cards. After a while, I have to take 'em down and stack 'em and keep 'em some of there. But when a staff member writes a card to thank me or to thank our organization for something that registers, and they're rare, and I'm not saying that so that anybody, you get a just start sending me a bunch of cards. I'm just saying gratitude moves up, moves down, moves sideways, and a culture of gratitude is just a better culture to work in. So what do you think about all that?

Suzy Gray (13:16):
Well, I think I need to say, Andy.

Andy Stanley (13:18):
No,

Suzy Gray (13:19):
Thank you.

Andy Stanley (13:19):
No. See, that's why I started the way I did. No, you always do that. You you're, you're great at this. You should be leading this conversation. Actually,

Suzy Gray (13:27):
No, I think that that's an important distinction, that it does go both ways, but I think you're right. It needs to start with leadership because it's modeling.

Andy Stanley (13:34):
Exactly.

Suzy Gray (13:34):
It's modeling what's happening. And I think the reciprocal of what we've been talking about is true as well, that when we fail to say thank you, bad things happen, right?

Andy Stanley (13:43):
Yeah. People who don't feel appreciated, they certainly aren't going to work harder or be more loyal or more devoted to whatever it is that we're doing. Unexpressed gratitude actually expresses something. It's not a net neutral, it's a deposit or it's a withdrawal. There isn't a neutral.

(14:00):
Because as I stated earlier, to fail to recognize what you've done is to fail to recognize you. And the subtle message again is you are dispensable. You're easily replaceable as an individual. You're not essential. There's somebody else who could do what you do, and that's a terrible way to feel. Nobody wants to feel that. And I don't think anybody does that on purpose. But when we don't have some sort of reminder or somebody to remind us as we're going to talk about in just a minute, it's easy just to move forward and not look back. By not expressing our gratitude. We're saying, we could have accomplished this just as well. Without you, you wouldn't be missed. And again, nobody would say that.

(14:38):
But if you are just killing it over and over and over and over, and there's nothing coming your way except a paycheck, eventually you feel underappreciated. An auto deposit just does not scratch that itch. I don't care how much money you're making, right? There's a human side of this that, again, it's too easy to miss and we know better. But if we don't pause, and if we don't build this into the rhythm of our communication, we can accidentally send that message a message we don't even believe is true, which is you're not essential. I could have done this without you,

Suzy Gray (15:11):
Andy, I think you've built the case compellingly of why this is important. So let's get really practical. Obviously saying thank you is practical, but you've actually outlined three specific habits that are helpful for leaders to remember when expressing gratitude. So let's walk through those.

Andy Stanley (15:24):
Yeah, this isn't rocket science, but I need the reminder. In fact, preparing for our conversation today, I thought, I'm so glad we're talking about this because I'm like anybody else. I just get busy and move forward and forget to pay attention to the people around me who are doing amazing things because that's what they're supposed to do. I'm so accustomed to them to it anyway. So number one, and again, these are easy to remember. Number one is be specific. Just saying thank you isn't enough. It is so important to tell people to recognize, to say to people, I recognize what you did, so I'm going to call out what you did and why it mattered, why it was mission critical, why we would be a poorer organization without your hard work, or what we would've missed or missed out on if you hadn't done what you did.

(16:09):
So the more specific, the better, and this is kind of a personal illustration, but for years, people would say to me, Andy, you're such a gifted communicator. Well, that's like telling me I was born, Andy, you're such a gifted communicator. That's not a compliment. It's something somebody's born with to say, to recognize it. It's like saying, you're so tall, thank you. No, I have nothing to do with it. Every once in a while, occasionally someone will recognize and thank me for the time and effort I've put into creating a message or a talk. And that goes so deep, because again, they're recognizing my hard work.

(16:48):
My discipline. That means so much more than you're such a good communicator. So again, the more specific we can be. The other thing it does, and I learned this, I remember years and years ago when we interviewed Frank Blake, he talked about writing like a hundred or 200 thank you notes, thank you notes a week when he first came to Home Depot, who will ever forget that. But he wrote those notes based on information he got from the stores. So it was specific, it wasn't, thank you for your hard work and your devotion to Home Depot. It was, thank you for this past Wednesday, I heard that it was brought,

Suzy Gray (17:22):
This customer interaction.

Andy Stanley (17:22):
Yes, it was very, very specific. So we need to be as specific as possible, which means in some cases, it's doing a little exploratory work and getting the details before you write that thank you note or thanking that person in public. So being specific. Number two, just to be honest, don't thank people for something you don't actually value. People can tell.

Suzy Gray (17:42):
Yeah, People can sniff that out.

Andy Stanley (17:43):
You got to be sincere. Yeah. So be sincere, be honest. And the number three is to go public, private, thank you is good. But public gratitude multiplies the impact. You're elevating somebody else. You're saying to the organization, I'm paying attention to what individuals are doing. And since I had this opportunity to call this person out, have them stand, I want to thank them publicly because what they did behind the scenes has impacted what all of us do, whether we knew what they were doing or not. And those are opportunities that are easy to miss as well. And again, I get a lot of help with this. We'll talk about that in just a minute. And one more thing on that, when it comes to receiving gratitude, I've taught in the past that a leader should make it a habit of holding credit or praise or gratitude, like a hot potato. You accept it. You don't say, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You accept it, thank you. But you hold it loosely and for as short a time as possible, and you pass it along because we know anytime somebody thanks me for something, there is somebody else that was connected to what they're thanking me for.

(18:48):
So you accept it, and then you immediately pass that on to the person or the persons or the team that helped made whatever possible, possible that people were thanking you for. And most of us in leadership, especially the further up we are in the organization, we know that we couldn't do what we do. And we know we couldn't do the things that we get credit for without five people, a dozen people, hundreds of people around us. So again, the way we receive gratitude is our opportunity to express gratitude as well. And that just creates a culture of gratitude.

Suzy Gray (19:21):
So what are some tangible ways that leader can start building this rhythm into their week?

Andy Stanley (19:25):
Well, I'll start with the most obvious one. And the one I don't do very well is thank you cards or thank you notes. And the reason I don't is I can't even read my own handwriting, so I don't do a good job at this, but we have a couple of folks on our staff that are amazing at this. Every couple of weeks or three weeks, I get a thank you note. And it's something specific, actually on my way here today, I called the headmaster of a large private school here in our area because he has sent me three notes of encouragement and gratitude in the past few weeks. And when I got the second one, I thought, I'm going to call him and thank him because I can't write. If I wrote him a note, it would be like, what is he trying to say?

(20:08):
Where is this from? So I thought, I'm going to call him before I could call him. I received another one today. So I said, Diane, I'm calling him today to thank him for the encouragement, sort of thanking him for thank you. But again, he's been so encouraging. So thank you. Notes are huge. And again, as I mentioned earlier, when I receive those from staff, I keep those. That's massive. So thank you. Notes are a big deal. And the great thing about writing thank you notes is you can do skip level thank you notes. It's not just to direct reports to anyone in the organization that's done anything. I think I've heard you refer to it as the quiet contributors. The people that are never on stage, they're never public, they're doing their job. Nobody is ever going to recognize their work because their work is in some ways unrecognizable, but they are mission critical.

(20:53):
And those are the people oftentimes that need to hear from us the most. So there's thank you cards. There's staff meetings. I don't think I've been to a staff meeting in 30 years that someone didn't stand up and thank somebody or give credit to somebody for something they've done. And the reason that that's true for 30 years is that we have always blended that into or made that a part of our staff meetings, whether it's an open-ended question of, Hey, what's going on this week that you're excited about before we get to the agenda? And a hundred percent of the time, Hey, I just want to talk about a win, and I want to thank so-and-so for making that possible. Anytime you have a group of staff together, there's an opportunity to express gratitude publicly and to invite gratitude from other people around the circle. There's that. Then we use Slack. Some people use Microsoft teams. Anytime we can post something for the whole organization to see where it's a shout out to somebody who's gone the extra mile or done a great job or deserves gratitude. So there's probably more than that, but those are some of the tools that we use, some of the habits that we have here. Yeah.

Suzy Gray (21:55):
Yeah. Great ways to get started. Well, because when leaders make that a regular rhythm, I mean, what you just talked about is how does a leader make this a regular rhythm in their week? It changes what people expect from their leader.

Andy Stanley (22:07):
And those small habits communicate, I see you. I value you. I couldn't do this without you. Which is true. This is not hype, right? Yeah. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but on Sundays, I get here super early, but there are already volunteers here before me. Our service programming folks all have on black shirts, black pants that are behind the scenes. And I just thank every single or our parking team. I stop on the drive, guys. There's always those guys out there regardless of the weather. Thank you. I tell 'em, we couldn't do this without you. I tell our SBD team, Hey, if you weren't here, I would be sitting on my front porch preaching to people I could gather in the front yard. Okay? Let's just be honest. Without you here doing the magic that you do in terms of technology, let's face it, I can't do what I do. So it's true. We are truly interdependent. So why not express gratitude for what we know is a reality? And the leader that has a hard time doing this, that hides behind the paycheck thing, and these people should be lucky they have a job and all that nonsense. Nobody wants to work for that person. So

Suzy Gray (23:12):
That is true, because as you said, unexpressed gratitude is perceived as ingratitude.

Andy Stanley (23:17):
Ingratitude. That's right.

Suzy Gray (23:19):
And none of us want to be that leader.

Andy Stanley (23:21):
No.

Suzy Gray (23:22):
Well, Andy, thank you so much for the conversation today. It was really great. And to our listeners, thank you for listening. And before we leave, we have one ask, and that's to subscribe. By subscribing you help us grow our audience, which allows us to keep improving, bringing you great guests and great content to help you as a leader, go further faster. And be sure to visit the Andy stanley.com website where you can download the leadership podcast application guide that includes a summary of our discussion, plus questions for reflection or group conversation. And join us next week for our reverb episode where we will dig even deeper on this topic right here on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.