By Allen Haynes • August 4, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Andy Stanley (00:02): Hey everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further, faster. And today we’re tackling a topic that every leader is familiar with stress. And I guess truth is most of us see stress as an enemy, something to minimize or escape. But as it turns out, and this is what makes today’s conversation so fascinating, as it turns out, stress is not always an enemy. It can actually be wind in our sails. And joining me today is the individual who actually wrote a book to prove it. The book is entitled The Stress Paradox, why You Need Stress to Live Longer, healthier, and Happier by Dr. Sharon Bergquist. And in addition to being an author, Dr. Bergquist is a physician, a scientist, and as you’re going to see a researcher, she’s the medical director of Emory’s executive health program and leads the research program at the Paul WCV Comprehensive Internal Medicine Clinic. (00:53): She earned her Bachelor of Science from Yale University and her medical degree from Harvard Medical School. And the interesting thing is I was first introduced to Dr. Bergquist work when she was a guest on the Sanjay Gupta’s Podcast Chasing Life. And after I heard that interview, I told Suzy, our producer, Hey, I would love to have Dr. Bergquist on the podcast if possible. And then we found out that she’s an Atlanta resident and then we found out she was willing to come and be in the podcast studio with us in person. So Dr. Bergquist welcome to the podcast. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (01:23): It is such a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. Andy Stanley (01:26): Absolutely. And thanks for making that drive. Anybody familiar with Atlanta Traffic knows everything’s 30 to 45 minutes anyway, so we really appreciate it. So as you know, leaders are no strangers to stress. We’ve stated that. So this is certainly a relevant topic for all of us. And this book is so practical and the book is so inspiring. So before we jump into the details as a doctor, how did you get interested in this topic? And then we’re going to dive into this fascinating content because you were, I think a general practitioner for some time. You’ve done a lot of things as we discussed before we began the podcast, but how did you get interested in stress in particular? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (02:06): Yeah, the question of stress in particular really came about during patient care. I am the medical director of an executive health program, and we take care of executives that lead global companies. And I had one executive over a decade ago ask the question, am I going to die young from the hard life that I lead? Andy Stanley (02:29): Wow. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (02:30): And Andy Stanley (02:30): You said, Dr. Sharon Bergquist (02:32): Well, the instinctive answer at the time was, you need to slow down, you need to do less. But inherently that felt not right to me because this was an individual who was thriving through his work. There was a lot of meaning through the mentorship, he was providing the people on his team, and it was such a big part of who he was. And it made me question is that always the case? And that took me down a path of doing clinical trials, of really understanding different stress responses, how it impacts health and longevity. And as an internal medicine physician, I’m fascinated by what helps us in terms of lifestyle as big levers that help us maintain our health and promote longevity. So those questions dovetailed into does all stress harm and how do we choose stress that also aligns with our goals of aging well? Andy Stanley (03:38): And so that brings us to really the title of the book, the Stress Paradox, because the point of this book is it’s a paradox. There is good stress and there’s bad stress. And I think any of us who exercise understand the power of good stress. But when it comes to work and just day-to-day life, stress is considered an enemy. In the book you basically talk about when we begin to understand this, good stress can actually, as I said, help us live longer, healthier, and happier. So I’m going to read a quote to you from your own book because I thought it was a great summary. Before we jump into the contrast. You write, simply put, this book is about stressing yourself the right way with brief burst of specific kinds of stress that we’re going to unpack in just a minute at the right intensity, followed by the right kind of recovery brief, intermittent stress, paradoxically, and here it is, heal repairs and regenerates us. (04:29): So pretty quickly in the book you dive into the science behind this, and this is what’s so great about this book. There’s the science part that even I could understand and then the practical part and then the surprise ending that we’re going to get to in just a minute. So can you dive a little bit into the science behind good stress versus bad stress? And again, keep it simple for people like us, but I think it’s so important because this isn’t just a book about how to live a more stress-free or healthier life. Understanding what’s behind it to me was so motivating and so inspiring. As I told you, I kept sending quotes to my wife as I read this book, and I think we’re both going to reread it together. So jump into the genetic part of this, all of it just you go Dr. Sharon Bergquist (05:12): Right? So stress has a sweet spot and we have had 90 years of medical research showing us how stress harms. So we’ve come to associate stress as something we need to avoid. We need to also rethink how we approach stress because stress has divergent responses. The very thing that we are trying to avoid, the stress is also the thing that can save us. And the reason behind that is we have miraculous bodies that have this ability to regenerate and to heal. And the way we initiate this healing regenerative process is through stress. Our bodies are adapted to really sense that stress at the level of our cells and molecules. And that is the stimulus that starts repair mechanisms. It recycles damage parts of our cells. It regenerates our energy, it builds our antioxidant responses, our healing ability through inflammation. And when we emerge from that stress, we are not just more resilient in the sense that we can bounce back from stress, but we emerge at a stronger level. This is antifragility, this is how stress makes us stronger. And as our lives have become more comfortable in the last 200 years, we have removed these essential stressors that we need to become our healthiest and most vibrant selves. Andy Stanley (06:49): You talk in the book about the term used is hormesis. Am I saying that correctly? Correct comes from a Greek term to mean to excite and the good stressors excite the cells. Am I saying that correctly? And in doing so, the cells essentially wear, again, it’s like physical exercise. The cells wear themselves down, rejuvenate, recuperate, and come back, as you just said, stronger, which is not intuitive. You wrote, you said good stressors essentially reprogram your cells. This was fascinating. Reprogram your cells by changing the genes you express when your body is in survival or energy conserving mode. And these changes set you up to emerge, as you said, stronger and fitter when you recover from the stress. And again, I think most of us understand that in terms of muscles, but not in terms of cells. So that was fascinating. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (07:37): Yeah. In the last two decades, we have understood what’s happening at the level of our cells and molecules in a way that we did not have the medical technology to in the past. And that is giving us an untold story about stress of really how it helps us become stronger and why we actually need that stress. And it is fascinating how our cells respond in a way that changes their gene expression. So when we experience stress, it sends a signal down to the genes we express, and those are the genes that we’re activating that help the regenerative process, the healing that starts to build our defenses and make us stronger. And so the stress is really essential and it has a lot of implications of really how we should reverse engineer our lives. If we look at it from what is optimal for our gene expression, it takes us down the path that we need biological stressors, some mental stressors, some emotional stressors so that we can be at an optimal level where we can expand our human potential, where we can build defenses against disease and add years to our life. Andy Stanley (08:58): So for somebody who hasn’t read the book and they’re listening to this, they’re thinking, okay, I believe you. You’re the expert. What does that mean? Because I’m just stressed out. I mean, I am doing too much and I can’t believe that the current pace I’m running is healthy for me. In fact, everybody’s telling me it’s not healthy for me. My doctor telling me it’s not healthy for me because one of the statements you make in the book is this, you write, the most important thing to remember about your homeodynamic space is that even though your genes, which most of us are never going to understand that part, even though your genes play a part in shaping it, you write, you have most of the control. So without even understanding the science, there are things we can do to create a rhythm in our life that sets or I guess creates a context for our genes to do their best work to produce this good result that you’re talking about. What does that look like when you’re talking to the average person, you say, here’s what you need to think about or do differently. Where does that go? How does that land? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (09:56): The key as you mentioned, is differentiating the types of stress that harm and the types of stress that help us heal because both are true. Stress can be harmful. There’s no question about that. And what’s new is how to leverage stress so that it can build health. Andy Stanley (10:14): And I guess that’s the question all of us average people are asking, we know how to leverage the bad stress. We’re experts, Dr. Sharon Bergquist (10:19): Plenty of Andy Stanley (10:20): How do I leverage, how do I unlock or find the power in this good stress? What does that look like Dr. Sharon Bergquist (10:26): At a level of just feeling the difference? When a person is experiencing stress that is harmful, they tend to become more fatigue, worn down, exhausted. It takes us down the path of burnout. When a person experiences stress, that is good types of stress, it’s energizing, it’s motivating, it leads to reward. And when you break down the characteristics of the stressors, the chronic stressors that are uncontrollable, unremitting, overwhelming, and often not aligned with our belief system are the ones that take away from our health. They make us less resilient. The stressors that are brief are the good stressors. So good stress is also mild to moderate and good stress aligns with our belief system. It has the potential for reward in a way that fulfills our purpose and helps us lead to a greater good. Those are the large hallmarks of the different types of stress. (11:26): And a lot of that differentiation is rooted in how our human bodies adapted to stress over time. Our ancestors faced brief intermittent stressors in their environment. For most of human history, things such as needing to have an interval of high intensity exercise or as you described, that’s a very common thing we can identify with as a good type of stress. They also endured period of food scarcity. They had to work as a tribe so that they could survive that involved working through interpersonal conflict. They had to do critical thinking to build tools to push beyond their horizon and to survive as a species. And our bodies have become adapted to these brief types of intense stress followed by periods of recovery. Andy Stanley (12:23): And that’s, as you talk about, is actually built into the cycle within the genes. So the phrase that you used in the book, I love this is episodic stress, and you inferred that just a minute ago that there are episodes of short bursts of stress. Talk a little bit about that and then I want to just walk through this list of things that are practical that we can do to manufacture these episodic seasons of stress. Because in the book, you’re kind of funny, you say The good news is even though that’s what happened with our ancestors, that sort of wired us this way, we don’t have to go back and try to replicate those environments. But because we’re so comfortable and because we seek comfort and because we resist stress, all kinds of stress in some ways, we have to in some ways manufacture these episodic stress experiences or we don’t benefit from the good stress. So talk a little bit about episodic and then I’m just going to walk you through your own list if that’s okay. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (13:20): Yes. So in our ancestors lives, these types of bursts of stress just built into every day. They had to have different plant foods, for example, which our bodies perceive as a mild form of stress. They had to go through long stretches without food. They had to endure extremes of heat and cold. Now that our lives have become more comfortable, so in the last 200 years with advances in technology with the industrial revolution onward, we have made our lives more comfortable. And that’s not all bad. Our life expectancy is a lot longer, but we have now removed the need for some of these types of stress from our life and that has a lot of implications for our ability to live our full human potential and also for our health and the epidemics of chronic disease. Andy Stanley (14:16): So you give this list and the first one was one of the first quotes I sent to Sandra, and I’ll tell you why in just a minute. So you talk about plant-based toxins. So a toxin sounds like something we should stay away from, but you go into the science of how these toxins actually create this episodic, I guess, experiences within our genes. So talk a little bit about plant-based and we’ll talk about exercise, heat and cold exposure, fasting and all the fun things. But the plant-based one, that was the surprise Dr. Sharon Bergquist (14:45): For most of nutritional research. Really in the last 50 years. We have thought of food as something that it gives us what we need. For example, if we eat a blueberry, we need the antioxidants from blueberry. But the puzzle that has been longstanding is that if you measure the amount of antioxidant that you would get from a blueberry, it is orders of magnitude, not at the amount that we need to neutralize all the oxidative stress that’s happening in our environment. Andy Stanley (15:15): You can’t eat enough blueberries, Dr. Sharon Bergquist (15:17): You simply can’t. It’s not a tit for tat. And that’s always been a conundrum. And what we understand now is that food, particularly the phytochemicals, the plant chemicals that are in plant food stress ourselves in a very gentle way. And that is what turns on these healing and defensive abilities that we have built into our DNA. And the reasons for that are plants also have a need to survive just as we as humans have wanted to survive, and plants naturally make these chemicals, these phytochemicals as a way to deter us as humans to eat them, they also help them survive drought, ultraviolet light. They’re the natural pesticides in the plants when we consume them, they’re conferring their stress resilience to us and they are helping us get stronger. And the turnabout is that it’s not that we are getting the antioxidants from food. Food is turning on this code that we have in our own DNA, our built-in ability to heal, and that is the ancient secret code that makes us our healthiest self. Andy Stanley (16:39): That was so fascinating because again, you’re exactly right. What we’ve heard our whole life is we’re extracting nutrients, which is true to some extent from these foods, but the whole idea that each of these foods created their own pesticide and it’s that built-in pesticide that activates the gene that creates sort of this short episode within the cells. That was fascinating and of course made perfect sense once we read it, once you explained it. So when I read that, especially about resveratrol, (17:08): Because in the book you give a list of things as it relates to each of these toxins, which is worth the price of the book, especially if you have any interest in nutrition. It’s so fascinating. So I texted Sandra because we have a gazillion blueberry bushes and I love dark chocolate. I’m like, look, there we go. We’re doing this right. But again, you break this down on all these lists. So the plant toxins, that was fascinating. Then you talk about exercise, and again, a little bit of what we know in terms of the breakdown of a muscle and build a muscle, but you go further into that as it relates to this whole idea of the episodic exercise because there are people, as you know, you talk about aerobic exercise, but the temptation is to create instead of burst of exercise, it’s I’m going to go run five miles, I’m going to get on the treadmill for 45 minutes. Talk a little bit about the episodic aspect of exercise that makes it so healthy, because again, it’s consistent with your whole thesis. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (18:03): Yeah, the lens to see all of these lifestyle behaviors, whether it’s what we eat, how we exercise, and as we’ll get to even how we think is that if we create an intense burst of stress, our physiologic response to that stress is different than continuous stress. Our bodies have a natural rhythm that responds to stress and recovery. So when we have an intense bout of exercise followed by recovery, we build stronger adaptations that translates to our muscles building stronger. It translates to the mitochondria, which are the parts of our cells that are the powerhouse that increase our ability to make energy. We send a strong signal that our bodies need to adapt by increasing the number and volume of our mitochondria because our body wants to be able to handle future stress better. And the stronger that stress signal, the more we ramp up our ability to handle future stress better. (19:15): When you look at clinical studies of people who do continuous pace exercise versus people who exercise in intervals, the group that exercises in intervals where it’s intensity recovery, intensity recovery sees greater gains in measures such as cardio, respiratory fitness specifically. There was a study done in Japan in middle age and older adults where one group did continuous walking 30 minutes several times a week. Another group was told to walk in intervals, three minutes fast, walk three minutes, slow down, catch your breath, three minutes fast, walk three minutes, slow down. And at the end of months from that steady time period, the group that walked in intervals had a greater reduction in all the risk factors that we care about today that we know lead to the epidemics of chronic disease. Andy Stanley (20:12): So again, this is the pattern that we find externally, internally. And going back to the gentleman you talked to who wondered, Hey, am I going to die early because of his stress, it appears to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, what he was worried about. It sounded like he had found a healthy rhythm where he was enjoying that he wasn’t stressed out, he was engaged in stressful activity, but there was a rhythm in all of that that you seemed to think, Hey, no, maybe you’ve just found the rhythm of life where you are actually maximizing these bursts of energy as it relates to the workplace. Is that kind of for the person who’s trying to figure out what this looks like day to day at work or within the context of career? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (20:52): A hundred percent. As leaders, I think the goal is to be able to handle high pressure situations, but in a manner that is sustainable, that also builds health and adds to our longevity, not in a manner where we are going to fizzle out and at the cost of our health and vitality. And this natural rhythm of stress and recovery is one that has been honed into our biology years for millions of years. And if we honor our bodies and we honor that natural rhythm, we can go through stress in a way that grows us. The types of stress do matter. The types of stress that I highlight are the ones that we know have this beneficial effect on our genome that we know help us build stronger pathways in our brain. They help the connectivity, they help us build new brain cells. So they help us build the structure and the foundation for being able to become stronger. (22:00): The growth is important. I think growth is one of our greatest goals as humans, but the foundation of growth is built on our physiology and these stressors with some being biological and some being mental and emotional, are a way to build that foundation through one supporting the other. So this is a mind body quintessential prescription for how we can become stronger in a very concrete way. I think growth through adversity is something that we have heard for a very long time, for decades. It goes back to a lot of religious and philosophical written work, but we’ve always only understood it in this abstract Andy Stanley (22:47): Way. We know it’s true. We haven’t known why. And that’s why I love this book. It explained, again, it explains some things we’ve all experienced, we’ve all been told, but you anchored it in a way to science that is very inspiring. So we haven’t been wrong about some of our conclusions, but we’ve been wrong about some of our explanations is sort of how I took some of this. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (23:10): It does give us a very concrete way to understand the physiology behind resilience, like what it means and what are we building, and that is what is new, the added information, and it also helps us differentiate better. What is the type of stress that harms, what is the type of stress that strengthens? So I think that is really the next level of where we’re at in our understanding of stress and resilience. Andy Stanley (23:44): In the book, you sort of tease out plant-based toxins. You talk about exercise, heat and cold exposure, which is such a trend right now that I’ve never looked into, thought it was kind of a fad, it’s going to go away. And then I read your book, I’m like, oh no, I’ve got to do an ice bath, and then I have to stand out in the sun and do a sauna. But again, when we understand what’s happening again, it’s so motivating. You talk about intermittent fasting, again, a big trend right now. It certainly works in terms of weight loss, but you explain how it is just part of this same rhythm of creating resilience just beyond the benefit maybe of weight loss. I mean, there’s so much. So in chapter 12, chapter 12 is titled Getting Out of Your Comfort Zone. And we’ve talked a little bit about just the fact that we are all drawn to a comfort zone, which in some ways is not healthy. (24:31): But in that chapter, you list your top 10 biomarkers for assessing health and longevity. And I bring it up because a lot of us get physicals and whatever our doctor says we believe. And not every physical looks at the same thing and not every physical measures the same things, and we don’t really know what to ask. And as I look through your list, some of that was familiar and some of it was unfamiliar. So would you just comment on that and are there questions we should ask our physicians? Are there questions as it relates to this conversation that we should ask as it relates to other tests or further testing? Because so much of this is so key to understanding how to, again, apply what you’re talking about in terms of the science, and we don’t have to understand the science so much as we just need to know what to do, which you explain in such great detail. So for the average person that’s getting the average physical, what do you recommend? What should we ask? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (25:27): So the markers that I put into that book, the common theme is that they are simple, they are affordable, and they’re all modifiable. Meaning that if we take on these good stressors, live a lifestyle that honors this stress and recovery pattern that our bodies need, that we can move the needle, and these are highly predictive of the way we’re going to age in our ability to catch disease early and prevent disease. The things that are in there are supported by a lot of science. Not all of those markers are implemented into healthcare. There is a gap between what we know that is well established in scientific literature and what makes its way into a healthcare setting. Things as simple as body composition, I think are so impactful in predicting how one is going to age something as simple as your waist to height ratio muscle mass and strength, where we deposit fat in our waist circumference measures such as a fasting insulin, which can help us identify insulin resistance, which precedes an abnormal blood sugar by one to two decades. Andy Stanley (26:49): Oh, wow. Yeah. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (26:50): Measures of inflammation such as through high sensitivity, C-reactive protein, these are simple blood tests. They are all very inexpensive. And I think that we can all ask these questions and get a better snapshot of where we’re headed long before we’re diagnosed with disease. And that ultimately should be the goal because the goal of taking on good stress, of doing hard things is not just for the sake of grit or doing hard things. It’s for the sake of becoming the people we want to be with our highest potential for health and fulfilling our mission with our time on Earth. And in order to do so, we need to be healthy, we need to be strong. Identifying things at a point where making some change in our life can affect the trajectory is so important. And we don’t do that well in our current health system, but it’s simple to start incorporating into your, Andy Stanley (27:59): So those things are accessible if we would just ask for them. In some cases Dr. Sharon Bergquist (28:04): We can ask for them, even if insurance doesn’t cover, they are inexpensive. There are now a lot of direct to consumer labs that offer them at a very low price point. I think this comes down to taking ownership and feeling empowered to ask the questions and make choices in your life that can make a big difference. Our lifestyle can prevent 80% of the chronic diseases that we’re facing, that powerful, Andy Stanley (28:34): I think you should repeat that. Our lifestyle can what? That’s amazing. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (28:38): Our lifestyle choices can prevent 80% of chronic diseases that we’re facing today, such as heart disease, diabetes, obesity, depression, Alzheimer’s disease. It’s easy to underestimate how powerful we are in affecting our health trajectory. And I encourage every person to work towards making changes, even if they’re not perfect. That is not the goal, but simple changes can lead to big outcomes of your health. And these good stressors are the largest levers we can pull because they’re not just preventing damage. They are helping us repair the daily damage that our bodies are facing in our modern lives. Andy Stanley (29:29): Wow. Well, I will wrap it up with my favorite question that I was going to ask in chapter 14. This is why this book is so great in chapter 14. It’s recipes, it’s amazing. For Sandra, this would be worth the price of the book to give her these recipes. And I mean, you talk about how to build your own smoothie, build your own oatmeal, your muffins, stir fry, it’s all the practical stuff. So as we wrap up your favorite recipe of those in chapter 14, what’s your favorite? I don’t even know if that’s a good question. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (30:00): Well, the recipe section is designed to be a framework for different recipes. For example, there’s a template for how to make smoothies a template for how to make green bulls a template for how to do stir fry. And that was a very intentional way because the important thing is for us to build the skill of making healthy food and templates, just give us the framework that removes that thought process every time we sit down. And once you can make one smoothie, you can make 20. Once you can make one stir fry, you can make 20. And ultimately it’s the diversity of the plant food that helps us become our healthiest self. So it’s a way to incorporate diversity, build confidence, which is a big part of the goal of good stress, is to build self-trust, build self-confidence that we can do hard things. And we are actually designed to do hard things in the recipe section. Then really helps us live the goal of the book, which is learning a skill which challenges us sometimes even pushes us to a state of discomfort and does it in the service of becoming our strongest and healthiest selves. Andy Stanley (31:19): So tell me if this is a bad application, because a lot of our parents or grandparents, so when we’re growing up, our parents would say, you need to eat your vegetables because they’re good for you. But now we can say, you need to eat your vegetables because this new food is going to stress your genes and it’s going to make your genes stronger. Because introducing a variety of things is a built-in stressor. Isn’t that correct? Yes. See, even I could understand this, so, but what’s your favorite recipe? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (31:49): My favorite template is the stir fry template. Andy Stanley (31:52): So we’re going to call ’em templates from now on. Not recipe, I’m going to get a template, but Dr. Sharon Bergquist (31:55): Yes, because I love seeing what’s seasonal, what’s on sale at the store, what I have in my kitchen, and just throwing it in. And for me, that is the fun part. There’s creativity. So I love stair fries and we make ’em all the time. Andy Stanley (32:12): Yep, we do too. Wow. So again, as you know, this is a leadership podcast. So just top of mind, what can leaders do to model and then multiply a healthy relationship with stress for their organizations? Because we all, whether we think about it that way or not, we all have a relationship with stress. So what would you say to leaders in general as you think about that? Dr. Sharon Bergquist (32:35): The understanding that there is a thing such as good stress helps rethink our relationship with stress, and it also helps us rethink our relationship to ourselves if the work we’re doing aligns with our purpose and our mission. When we do this work, rather than avoiding stress, because we fear stress, but we embrace stress and we use it to help us understand our purpose, we create a more resonant self. We bridge that gap of dyssynchrony between our actions and our beliefs. And that helps us emit a different type of energy to the people that we’re leading to the people that are around us in our personal lives. There’s work done that we influence traits such as happiness or even qualities such as obesity, three degrees of separation. So we not only influence our coworkers, but the coworkers of our coworkers, Andy Stanley (33:38): Wow. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (33:38): Through the people that we are in a very nonverbal, non-spoken way, doing this level of internal work through stress, through discomfort that creates the growth that helps us achieve this self. Synchrony helps us attract rather than repel, we inspire creativity instead of fear. We help others do the same. And it creates this upward spiral. That’s a very virtuous cycle where we are pulling others up with us. We’re a positive force in people’s lives. Modeling this work influences our teams in a way that the spoken word often can’t. Andy Stanley (34:24): That’s amazing. And you’ve seen that. Dr. Sharon Bergquist (34:26): I see it and I’d like to think that I model it lot. Andy Stanley (34:31): I have a feeling that you do. Dr. Bergquist, thank you so much for this conversation and for our leadership podcast audience. I know you’re thinking, wait, I thought this was a leadership podcast. Well, lemme just share something with you that you know can’t lead without a physical body and you can’t lead well without a healthy physical body. And the people you’re leading are watching you. And if you care about them, then you care about their physical health. So I just think this is a great book. This is the kind of book you want to give away to people you care about because it just introduces a brand new way of thinking about something that’s important to everybody and that everybody knows is important. So to all of our listeners today, if this episode resonated with you and I imagine it did, be sure to get a copy of The Stress Paradox, the Stress Paradox. It’s available wherever wonderful books are sold. And if you haven’t already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. It helps more leaders discover these conversations. And don’t forget to download the leadership podcast application guide@andystanley.com and join us next week on Reverb where Susie and I will unpack this conversation even further. Until then, thanks for listening to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Comments are closed.