By Allen Haynes • June 2, 2025 Listen to the podcast. Andy Stanley (00:02): Hey everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further faster. I’m Andy Stanley. Today we’re talking about a topic every leader will face sooner or later, actually multiple times how and when to hit the reset button when something just isn’t working. So if you are in the middle of something that’s not working, you come to the right place. If you’ve navigated something that wasn’t working and figured out how to make it work and you thought that took way too much time and energy, you’ve come to the right place. And joining me to unpack this very important question is Dan Heath, whose latest book is all about this question. The title is Reset, how to Change What’s Not Working. And if that name sounds familiar, it should. Dan, along with his brother, chip coauthored some of the most influential business books in the past decade Made To Stick. It’s a huge one for us in our organization. Switch In The Power of Moments, another big book for our organization and now reset. His books have been translated into 35 languages. They’ve sold over 4 million copies worldwide. Dan, welcome to the podcast and as I said a few minutes ago, it’s so nice to finally meet you. Dan Heath (01:09): Andy, thank you so much. What a treat to get to talk with you. Andy Stanley (01:10): This will be fun and super relevant. As I mentioned, I’ve been a big fan since Made to Stick along with the Power of Moments. And of course, in light of what we do is a big network of churches, making things stick and creating moments. That’s kind of our business. So essentially those two books made such a profound impact on our organization, and both of those books were books. I would walk into people’s offices or go through Cube World here and just see those out on shelves. So thank you for the contribution you’ve made to our organization. Well, thank you. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, and absolutely the case. And this one is, well, in this book reset, you’re addressing the disheartening realization. That’s the best word I can think of that all of a sudden this isn’t working anymore. It was working. It has worked. It seems to be working for everybody else, but it’s not working for us anymore. So before we dive into the content real quick, what got you interested in this and why This topic of all topics? Dan Heath (02:09): Believe it or not, it all started with a night at the Chick-fil-A drive-through. So this was a pandemic era. I was commanded to go fetch some nuggets for the family, and I got there. It was the longest line I’d ever seen at a drive-thru. I mean 50 cars minimum. And I just feel my soul shrinking inside me. I hate lines, I hate waiting. And so I frantically start trying to come up with some lies. I can tell my wife about why I came home without the nuggets and sadly couldn’t come up with anything. So got in line within about 30 seconds, my emotions kind of turn around because it’s the most sophisticated drive-through I’ve ever seen. I mean, this thing just kind of hums along and the cars are creeping forward. There are hardly any times when you got your brakes on. And so I got very curious about this. Why is Chick-fil-A so much better at something that a lot of people are trying to do? And so I went and talked to the owner operator, Tony Fernandez came to learn that this Chick-fil-A, the one in Hillsborough Road in Durham, North Carolina, can process over 400 cars in an hour. And to answer your question, I think what captured me about that was the first way I formulated the question of this book was how do you run things better? (03:27): And so Chick-fil-A was kind of like a perfect emblem of that. They’re doing something a lot of people are trying to do, but way better. But as I got into the topic, I started to empathize with kind of the flip side, which is imagine your Arby’s looking with envy at the Chick-fil-A and it’s humming along and yours is just as pitiful as it’s always been, and you’ve tried a couple of half-hearted things that don’t work, like how do you get from stuck to moving forward? And so I kind of flipped the question on its head and started to get interested in how do we get ourselves unstuck? Andy Stanley (04:01): And that’s so funny because of your first book. In fact, one of my notes when I was taking notes was, that’s interesting. The first one was How to get stuck. We want to make things stick and now we want to get unstuck. And again, every leader, we ping pong back and forth, tried to figure those things out. In the book you lay out a simple, it’s sophisticated, but it’s simple in terms of implementation, understanding a simple two-part strategy. You first you say talk about finding leverage points and then restack resources, a restack resources brand new concept to me, I don’t know that I’ve even heard other people talk about the same thing in different language. So can you give us the high level overview of those two and then we’ll dive in and go into as much detail as you have time for. So Dan Heath (04:45): That’s great. Yeah. So as you said, the first part is to find leverage points, which is just a very simple acknowledgement that when you’re dealing with complicated systems, when you’re trying to change the way things have always worked, you can’t do everything at once period. So you got to choose your shots, and that puts a big premium on what you decide to push on first. And leverage points are places in the way I define the term where a little bit of investment goes a long way. There’s disproportionate impact. And so basically half the book is about, well, where do you go looking for these magical leverage points where a little bit goes a long way. And then the second part of the book is about leverage points is about where do you aim, where are the first places you should push to change a stuck system? (05:30): And then the second part of the book is about for something to really change at an organization or in your life, you have to use the assets that you have differently. If this week you’re using your people and your systems and your technology and your time the same way you were last week, you cannot expect anything to have changed. And so restack resources is about, well, where do you get the fuel that you need to push in a new direction? Given that most of us probably just don’t have satchels of cash ready to come off the sidelines and help us. Andy Stanley (06:00): Or Extra employees to employ. Take on a project, they’re all caught up in the whirlwind as it is. Dan Heath (06:07): And so that’s the second part of the book is given that we’re probably constrained with the resources we have, where do we go looking for the resources we need to go in a new direction? Andy Stanley (06:17): Wow. So I’ve got so many questions under each of these, but I want you to guide the conversation, so feel free to say that’s not a good question, Andy, I want to talk about something else, but one of the things that was a quick takeaway for me, and again, depending on the kind of organization people are working in, this whole idea, this is a quote, you talked about going to see work that’s done. You wrote, when you go and see the work, you also discover what you’ve been oblivious to and problems you’ve been oblivious to or you’ve acclimated to those problems instead of fixing them. So in terms of finding the leverage points, one of the super practical things you say is you got to actually get up out of your office and go look around. Can you talk about that a little bit? I thought that was as obvious as it is. It’s not necessarily so obvious. Dan Heath (07:04): Yeah, I think that’s right. It’s obvious and a lot of the pressures of leadership push you the other direction because what happens is as you rise in organizations, you get more and more abstracted from the actual work and you start to see memos that are translations of reality, and you have meetings that are interpretations of reality and it becomes hard. There’s more and more friction to actually getting into that reality. (07:29): One of my favorite stories about this topic was about an assistant principal named Karen Ritter who participated in a program called Shadow a Student. And so the assignment was for her to shadow a student all day long. It was a ninth grader named Alan. And so she literally met him when he walked in the building, sat next to him in class, did the same assignments he did, sat next to him in the cafeteria, ate cafeteria food. And what she took away from that was pretty powerful because in some ways, the day matched up exactly with her expectations, like they did this kind of before and after report card. And one of the items on the report card was, do you think this school offers a supportive learning environment? And so she participates in this as a student. She comes away thinking, yes, we do. I was right about that. (08:18): But in other areas, her intuition was very, very different. For instance, there had been a lot of talk at the school about making learning more active, more interactive, getting students involved. And her experience sitting in the class next to Alan was No, it’s still a lot of teachers yapping and students slowly slipping into a coma over many hours of work. And so this was a way for her of almost peeling back the layers of the onion and seeing things in a new way. And she came away with some very specific things. Back to this discussion of leverage points, an obvious leverage point that came from this was, look, it’s not enough to talk about active learning. We’ve got to get more serious about this. We’ve got to hold teachers accountable. We’ve got to actually change the way classrooms are functioning or else we’re not walking the talk. Andy Stanley (09:08): And you mentioned at the top of this being kind of locked into the corporate mindset of I don’t have time to do that. I’ve hired people to do that. I think that’s why I resonated with this so much. There are things that you can’t fix. Well, you can’t fix something you don’t understand, and if you don’t know why it’s working, when it’s working, you can’t fix it when it’s broke. And the only way to know is to get to the most transactional part of the business in terms of what really makes a difference. And shadowing is one of those things. Years ago I had an opportunity to interview Frank Blake who had just left Home Depot at the time, and I said, suddenly, you’re the CEO of Home Depot. What do you do? He said, I got on planes and I walk the floors of the stores, and then I said, I started taking the executives we’re going to walk. (09:51): In other words, this is where it happens. We can’t figure out what needs to be fixed until we’re willing to get out of corporate in Atlanta and walk the store floors. And I thought, and there it is, love that in our world Sunday mornings because where large churches can be chaotic, we talk to our staff, Hey, every once in a while you need to come a little bit late, get in the traffic, walk the halls, check in a child experience what parents are experiencing, not necessarily even to get something fixed, but if we lose sight of the experience, then when there are rumblings, we’re so far removed. Dan Heath (10:29): Amen I love that Idea and it reminds me, I had a speaking event recently and happened to overhear the CEO, this is a chain of eye clinics, and she was giving sort of a state of the union for this company, and I was so impressed because literally half of her talk, I mean half of it was what you would expect, PowerPoints and revenue numbers and targets and blah, blah, blah. And the other half was like she was stitching together their strategic targets with her personal observations as she’d be like, we’ve got to get better at making sure we have our appointments done strategically. For instance, when I posed as a customer and called this one clinic in Alabama, here’s what happened, and I was secret shopper. Yeah, that’s go and see the work. It’s not enough just to have the span of authority. You have to be able to tether that to reality or else you’re not really going to understand how to change a complicated system. Andy Stanley (11:29): And to the point that we’re talking about, you can’t find leverage points sitting and looking at spreadsheets depending on the nature of the business. Then under the same idea, you talk about consider the goal of the goal and why reframing is so important. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because again, this is all part of finding leverage points. Dan Heath (11:48): So one example here that I love that I came across was years ago Congress had passed a law allowing for veterans who have a total permanent disability. TPD is what it’s abbreviated as to have their loans forgiven if they have student loans. That was on the books. Problem was there are a lot of veterans that didn’t know about this benefit, and the application process was somewhat cumbersome, so a lot of them would kind of get caught up in the middle and not finish. (12:21): And so the first goal that they formulate is, okay, this is a shame. These people have earned this benefit. Let’s try to take some friction out of the system. And so they start doing all these things to try to make the application process a little bit easier, and they try mailing letters out and it’s not going all that well. They’re not moving the needle as much as they thought. And so at some point a couple of leaders get together and they’re like, what are we trying to do here? Are we really trying to make the application process friction free or are we just trying to forgive the debts of some veterans? What if we just skip direct? Why do they have to apply for something that we know they earn? Andy Stanley (13:07): It’s a benefit, right? Yeah. Dan Heath (13:09): And so it dawns on them, look, the VA has the data on which veterans are totally disabled, the Department of Education, the ed, they have the data on who has student loans. I don’t want to make this sound too simple, like a minor miracle to get the data points of two agencies to talk to each other, but they were like, why don’t we just compare these two databases, figure out and let ’em know? And so it kind of changes everything when they start thinking about the goal of the goal. And that’s the departure point is sometimes we get so caught up in just the way we’ve been thinking about things and the measures that we’re chasing, how many applications are coming in and can we boost that number? We just need to take a pause and make sure, is there a simpler, better, easier, more graceful way to accomplish the ultimate goal of the goal? Andy Stanley (14:02): And there’s the reset. (14:03): Okay. Then one other quote, I love this. You talk about the miracle question, and again, all of this are these sort of ways to discover where we’re stuck and this is a quote. Then you can tease it out that the quote says, you pretend essentially that a miracle happened overnight that fixed your critical problem, that suddenly whatever it was that needed to reset it is now reset and you’re unstuck. So a miracle happened overnight that fixed the problem. And then this question, what are the first things you noticed after you woke up that revealed a miracle that happened? In other words, if overnight whatever needed reset, got reset, what would be the first thing? What’s the first evidence of the fact that something was reset? That is such a brilliant question because to the illustration you just gave, it kind of skips over some of the mental blocks or we’re so in the weeds of what we’re doing, we can’t see past it. I just thought that was a great question. What’s the first thing I would notice? Because that probably takes me to a leverage point in terms of creating the reset. Dan Heath (15:04): That’s exactly it. Yeah. So the miracle question is a tool of a branch of therapy called solutions focus therapy. And as you said, the beauty of it is it focuses you on something very concrete. (15:16): So one example is there was a married couple, their relationship had frayed, they were on the cusp of divorce, but they’d gone to therapy to try to save the relationship. And so the therapist guides them through the miracle question, if a miracle happened overnight and your marriage was fixed, how would you know? You know? Exactly. (15:36): And so they think about this and they start having these just beautifully concrete visions of what that would look like. And so the husband says, well, when I came home from work and I walked in the door, she would look up from her book and smile at me, and the wife says, well, maybe we would go out dancing. We used to, and it’s like they both had this moment where they’re like, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t paying attention to him when he came in the door and he was thinking, I didn’t know she still would want to go dancing with me. And if you think about these little tiny things, I mean, we think about a marriage that’s on the brink of dissolution as being just a hopelessly complex. How could you ever untangle all of the emotional strands there? But look how concrete and actionable these things are. Like, yes, I can look up from him, look up at him when he comes in the door and yes, I can go dancing with her. And those become the first leverage points on the road to recovery. Andy Stanley (16:36): An imaginary illustration I guess that came to mind when I read that was this, that we all get complaint emails. So maybe an application is, and there’s themes in our complaint email, so we know there’s something that’s not working. Too many complaints are in the same area to write out what would be the most amazing email to receive as it relates to this particular thing and write it out in detail. What would be the, oh my gosh, we are killing it. Because that would take me specifically, again, I’m looking sort of at the end of the process, what would I want to hear? What does a person experience? Now I know what to go work on. That kind of cuts through the clutter. Same idea, right? Dan Heath (17:18): It is. And I like the kind of shift that you made there because you’re using the same question more in a team environment. And I think the power of this in a team environment is the miracle question gives you a way to surface hidden disagreements. So maybe you’re talking about improving the patient experience in your clinic or in your hospital or whatever, and everybody’s kind of nodding, but secretly in their minds, they have 12 different definitions of what that means. Andy Stanley (17:46): Yes. Dan Heath (17:46): But once you ask the miracle question, you lock onto those particulars. That’s a way of figuring out, I mean, you might have a disagreement to come, we may have to figure out whose vision to run with, but at least we have something to talk about at that point. Andy Stanley (17:58): Yeah, it gets it out of the theoretical pretty quick. So if we’ve got one more on this one, target the constraint, again, identifying that limiting factor. Again, the big picture is we’re doing a reset, something’s not working that used to work or maybe it’s never worked well or you inherited a system. So how do we reset how we know where to begin target the constraint or the limiting factor? So how do you spot and address that limiting factor? And in the book, I think in the book, this is where you talked about Chick-fil-A as you sat there and observed all that, but again, target the constraint. What is that about? Dan Heath (18:32): The constraint is the bottleneck. It’s the number one thing holding us back. And when I talked to Tony Fernandez, the Chick-fil-A owner operator, he said, that’s the way we became a superhero at this is by systematically chasing the constraint and whittling it down. So just to make this tangible, I get a lot of drive-throughs. The menu board might be the constraint. There’s usually just one. And inevitably we get behind that person who gets up there rolls their window down and it’s like just at that moment, it’s dawned on them that they have to make a decision and it takes them four minutes to make it. Andy Stanley (19:08): Yes, there’s an app Dan Heath (19:09): For this. And so the nature of a serial process is if it takes that person four minutes to make a decision, well then your tab just went up by four minutes and the person behind you and so forth. And so Chick-fil-A just said, well, look, if that’s the bottleneck, what if we just didn’t do that? Right? And so there’s literally no more menu board. They pushed human beings into the parking lot to take your order right there at your driver’s side window with an iPad. And if they’re busy, I have literally seen six people out there with iPads ordering at the same time. I mean, there’s not a drive-through in the world that has six menu boards. And so that’s a way of obliterating the constraint of the ordering part. Now there’s an asterisk there, which is you never get rid of the constraint, it just moves. So you make ordering smoother that makes the system performance better and the bottleneck shift somewhere else. Well, now it’s in the kitchen. If you’ve got six people taking orders, imagine the flood of nuggets and fries orders coming into the kitchen and those poor people have to fry up all that stuff. Well, now maybe we have to support them, give them more staff, improve their systems. So the constraint keeps bobbing around, but each time you win a victory, the system performance gets better and it probably moves somewhere else. Andy Stanley (20:27): Wow. So applicable. Okay, so that’s reset. Getting things to work that used to work, got to find the leverage points. Then secondly, and again, this was such new language, you talk about restacking resources. So we’re assuming now we found a leverage point. We assume now we’ve defined what needs to change, where the bottleneck is, and now we’ve got to implement some sort of solution. So talk about what is restacking resources? Dan Heath (20:52): Restacking resources is about, okay, it’s almost like the leverage point gives us a map, and now we’ve got to fuel the vehicle to get to that place. And that means we got to get fuel and where’s the fuel coming from? Because like we talked about earlier, there’s probably not just excess sitting on the sidelines that we can tap. So we have to figure out where does it come from? And so one example is what I call doing less and more simultaneously. So I talked to this guy named David Philippi that works at Strateg X. It’s a consultancy, and he said, a lot of times he’ll go in and work with clients and kind of force rank their clients in terms of profitability from most to least profitable. And he said, we’ve all heard the Pareto thing of maybe 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your customers. He said, with profit, it’s a lot more distorted than that, that maybe 20% of your customers are 150% of your profit, which implies that there’s a bunch of customers you’re serving that are actually costing you money. They are not profitable. And so they do this force ranking thing, and this was the part where my brain just went crazy. He said, inevitably what they find is that your most profitable customers are under coddled and your worst customers are over coddled. (22:11): And so one really tangible example he gave me was he said they found again and again, he works with a lot of manufacturers, he said that they’ll often find that the worst customers have better on-time delivery rates than the best. And you think to yourself, how could that be? Doesn’t everybody know the best customers are? And this is like a go and see the work story. You have to understand the guts of the system to know how this could be possible. But if you shipping department is incentivized by percentage of shipments that are on time, it gives them an incentive to do these kind of quick and dirty, like your worst customers are just buying one part. And so you can stick that in a box and ship it out and stick it in a box and ship it out. The best customers are buying millions of dollars worth of stuff, complicated assemblies, maybe they’re different wait times to get this piece and then put it together. (22:59): And so it’s easy to procrastinate. And so it’s like this upside down world where Philippi says you have to change your system such that your best customers get on time delivery every time by definition. And if that means other things have to wait, well, that’s the right choice. And so number one, I got excited about this for business. I think there’s a lot of obvious ramifications, but what stuck with me is couldn’t you do that analysis on almost any aspect of change in your life or in your work? Imagine if you force ranked the relationships in your life from most precious and valuable to you to least, and isn’t it almost bound to be the case that there are people at the bottom that cause so much drama that might be outright toxic that are, Andy Stanley (23:49): I can’t even imagine what you’re talking about, Dan Heath (23:53): That are basically stealing wherewithal from us that should properly go to the people we care about the most. And so it became, for me, not really a profitability story, but really a story about isn’t this kind of a generic metaphor for when you need resources, don’t you by definition need to steal from the over coddled and give to the under coddled? Andy Stanley (24:16): And again, the bigger picture is to make change. It requires, well, it requires change to make change requires change. And to reset you obviously you have to do things differently and reallocating resources, whether it’s time or money or whatever it might be, or to the illustration you just gave, even prioritizing customers, it requires those things. But figuring those things out is so challenging times. Anyway, but that’s just one. Then you talk about tapping motivation. You talk about letting people drive, giving teams autonomy. Either one of those you want to jump on. There’s so much. Dan Heath (24:52): Yeah, let’s do tap motivation. So the idea here is this is going to sound so simple, and then maybe we can talk about why something so obvious is rarely done in the real world. So the idea here is if you imagine a Venn diagram, no business book is complete without a Venn diagram. So one circle is what’s required for change to succeed, some bundle of activities. That’s what it’s going to take for us to win at this. And then there’s another circle that’s right now in the minds of all the people that are your allies and your team, there’s a bunch of stuff that they desire. So what’s desired today? And my point is there’s almost certainly an intersection between what’s required to succeed and what’s desired today. And wherever that intersection is, that’s where you start. (25:43): And that is the simplest change schema in the world, and you almost never see it happen, especially in large organizations. Andy Stanley (25:54): And what’s the relationship between that and motivation? That is Where the motivation Dan Heath (25:55): Is. That is where the Andy Stanley (25:56): Intersection, Dan Heath (25:57): Exactly. Because by definition what’s desired, that’s where you already have fuel, you just have to tap it. And this is not even in the business world. We talk a lot about buy-in. We want to get buy-in from people for change. This is not even buy-in. This is upstream of that. This is just what people want to do if you let them. This is unleashing motivation. And I think the deal is what happens is a lot of times change is formulated by the muckety mucks. They sort of go in the back of, well, in three years we want to move these numbers and we want to be bigger in this way and better at this. And what’s the analytically purest way to get from point A to point B? And you kind of map it out, and then you try to unveil it and you try to attract buy-in. But if your change plans don’t include an analysis of motivation, what people want that you need to cooperate with you for your change effort, then you’ve left the number one variable out of the equation. Andy Stanley (26:59): And you’re talking specifically about people in the organization, what they Dan Heath (27:02): Yes. Got you. Yes. And you mentioned Frank Blake earlier. I talked to him for this book and was dazzled by him, it sounds like the same way you were. (27:13): He was a master of this, and he said, one thing that you have to learn as a leader is that you get what you celebrate, which is so powerful. So that’s a whole nother layer of motivation. So level one is start where there’s energy start, where there’s already motivation that you can tap. Part two is give a lot of praise to the people that are scoring those early victories that are doing the early work because you get what you celebrate and you’re signaling to the team, this is what success looks like. Now did he tell you how he did that? Andy Stanley (27:50): The deal? Talk about that. Dan Heath (27:51): His letters, Andy Stanley (27:52): Yes, his cards Dan Heath (27:54): Amazing, Andy Stanley (27:55): Amazing. Like hundreds of cards. Then he would walk the floors and people, associates would have those cards and have him sign ’em again. Did he tell you the story about the lady who came up and the ink was all blurred on hers? Dan Heath (28:08): No, Andy Stanley (28:08): You heard this. Okay, so she gets this note, handwritten note from the CEO and takes it home. And her husband says, that’s not real. A machine did that. And she’s like, no, he wrote this. He goes, no, I can prove it because if it’s real ink, the ink won’t blur when we put it underwater. So he takes his wife’s note and puts water on it, and sure enough, the ink just smears. So she brings him that card and ask him to rewrite the Dan Heath (28:38): Note. Oh, that’s great. Is that unbelievable? Yeah, Andy Stanley (28:41): Yeah. Dan Heath (28:42): See, he told me he had this habit of every Sunday afternoon was note writing time. I mean, this is the CEO of a Fortune 50 company, and he’s spending every Sunday afternoon handwriting notes, not to teams, but to individual people. And it’s not just a kind of generic way to go Home Depot way, blah, blah. No. It was like I heard about that thing that you did for that customer. It was specific, and that’s what was fueling him is he had to call attention to the things that were going right, because that was a powerful symbol to everyone else. Andy Stanley (29:18): He essentially jumped over the entire organizational structure and went to the floor of the Home Depot (29:24): And addressed again. It is such a remarkable, again, it wasn’t just how kind it shifted the Home Depot. I mean, it just brought their culture back. Definitely he would say it was a reset. And anyway, talk a little bit about accelerate learning. How can faster feedback loops? That’s a big deal. As organizations get more complicated, it takes a lot of time for information to get to where it needs to be, and then we’re late responding to the information. And if there’s going to be a reset, the feedback loop has got to be quick or you just muddle along. Talk a little bit about that. Dan Heath (30:02): My favorite illustration of this point is there was a guy named Moon Ve that was in charge of the fan experience for 49 ERs, games, football games. And they have this process where they’ll take surveys of fans in between games, and then they’ll try to improve whatever fans are complaining about. The parking lot was chaotic afterwards or whatever. And then at one point, Mojave’s Boss says, you know what? This process of waiting after the game, it’s like we only have what, a dozen or 15 shots at this home games, including preseason. And so it’s like if we wait until in between games, we’ve already lost seven to 10% of the whole season. (30:45): So we challenged Moon. Is there any way to get feedback within games? Well, so Moon Jve likes the spirit of this, but he has no idea how to do that. He looks into some survey apps that are on people’s phones, but then he can’t really convince himself how are we going to be at people to download an app? And then who’s going to stop watching the 49 ERs game to pull up an app and give, I mean, it just seemed like a dead end. So he is traveling one time for work, and he’s in an airport and he just happens to notice at the end of the TSA security line, there’s this little gizmo with buttons on it ranging from a super smiley face to a less smiley face, to a neutral face to an unhappy face. And the idea is you hit a button that captures your experience that day going through security. (31:38): These are called happy or not terminals, and he just sits there and he realizes, I’ve never pressed those buttons. I’ve never even really been aware that the machine was there. But he sits there and he sees a lot of people are doing this, and the light bulb goes off and he’s like, oh my God, this could be the way to get intra game feedback. And so he gets in touch with happy or not, and they put these terminals everywhere that they want. Feedback, bathrooms, concession stands at exit points. And it’s like all of a sudden they have this real time engine and it’s, look, it’s not complicated feedback, but what feedback do you really need about a bathroom? You just need feedback. It’s horrible. Somebody come here. And the significance of this is back to this idea that we’re kind of stuck with what we have. (32:29): He can’t hire an army of people to improve the fan experience. He has what he has, and there’s a set of people who are assigned to make the bathrooms cleaner during games. So they’re just going kind of bathroom to bathroom because what other process could you use? But now when you have the kind of lifeblood of the information, you can just go point to point wherever people are saying, Hey, this bathroom is a mess. Boom, get there. This bathroom’s a mess. Boom. Get the, and so it’s like you’re squeezing waste out of the system without needing new resources or new people. Wow. Andy Stanley (33:03): Yeah, the feedback loop thing, and again, for every industry and organization, it’s a little bit different. The challenge is a lot of times the whole idea is neglected. We just wait for somebody to complain. (33:15): That’s not really, it’s a feedback loop. It’s just not a very effective, you’re not learning anything or you’re learning things after the fact or before it’s too late. And again, the context of the whole conversation is how do you reset? How do you get something to start working again or to get something to work that’s never worked. And all these things are critical. Dan, we could go on and on the book. The book is so good. The charts are interesting. It’s fun the way you’ve laid the book out. There’s a lot of great content. You guys have always been great at that kind of layout, which is thank you. Thank you. So cool. Yeah. So thanks so much for being with us and thanks for writing the book that doesn’t just diagnose problems, but actually shows us the way forward. And to all of our listeners today, if today’s conversation resonated with you, and I bet it did, be sure to pick up a copy of Reset, how to Change What’s Not Working. (34:01): And even if everything is working today, a month from now, something won’t be working. So make sure you’re ready for that. It is packed with real world stories as you just heard, and very actionable principles. And we will link to the book in our show notes. But unfortunately, that’s all the time we have today. And as always, thank you for listening. And before we leave, we do have one ask, and that is to subscribe. By subscribing you help us grow the audience, which allows us to keep improving, bringing you great guests and great content. Also be sure to visit the Andy stanley.com website where you can download the leadership podcast application guide that includes a summary of this discussion, plus questions for reflection or group discussion. And make sure you join us next week for the Reverb episode where Susie and I will dig even deeper on this topic on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Comments are closed.