Listen to podcast.
Suzy Gray (00:02):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast Reverb, a conversation designed to help leaders go even further faster by digging deeper into this month's episode. I'm your host, Suzy Gray. Andy, last week you wrapped up your two-part conversation with Jim Collins about his new book, What to Make of a Life. And it was such a great rich conversation over these last two months you've had with him.
Andy Stanley (00:24):
Well, and he was so kind to give us so much time. He's just finished his book. So many people want his attention and he was not in a hurry. And I just felt like reconnected with an old friend. And Jim and I are kind of like green room friends. I only would see him at conferences and stuff for 10 minutes, but wow, it was so much fun. And as I shared last month, Sandra read the book along with me and want our kids to read it. It's just that good.
Suzy Gray (00:49):
It is amazing.
Andy Stanley (00:50):
It's just a framework for how life is and what to anticipate and how to work through the parts that aren't so great sometimes and that there's a price to pay for success and there's a price to pay in order to accomplish great things. And when you're paying the price, it's not always fun, but it's necessary and it's worth it. So just so many life lessons buried in this book.
Suzy Gray (01:10):
Absolutely. And I love that the last third of the book is on fueling the fire later and longer. And I remember something, I went to the book club launch he did of the book back in March and he said something that stood out to me then and he alluded to it in your conversation with him. He said, "When you hit 60, more than half of what might be the fire-filled life has yet to be written. Our younger selves need not tower over our older selves." And that was so encouraging.
Andy Stanley (01:43):
Well, if you think it was encouraging, how encouraging do you think I think? Jim and I are the same age. We both just turned 68 this year. So yeah, that part of the book was very encouraging. But to our listeners, he profiles 20 pairs of people, many of whom accomplish extraordinary things after 50. And it's an encouragement both to people in the 30s and 40s as they think about the future, not to dread the future and not to feel like, "Hey, I accomplished something great in my 30s or 40s," especially athletes and think, "Oh, it's over. I've done my thing. What else is there?" This book will just erase that whole way of thinking and help you understand that one thing is a means to another. If you stay with your encoding and your encoding, as he talks about, is not job specific. Your encoding can facilitate success in multiple areas and multiple seasons of life if we identify it and stay within that framework.
(02:39):
And in the book, he talks about people who were super successful early, got out of their framework, kind of muddled along, did some things. And publicly they were successful but not content, not happy. Then they got back in their frame. Got back in frame. Did something completely different, but in some cases literally helped change the world.
Suzy Gray (02:59):
Right. Fueled their Fire.
Andy Stanley (03:01):
It's a wonderful framework for how life is and provides hope for people who run the fog and provides hope for people who think, "Oh, I've already done my thing." He talks about the cliff of retirement. The cliff of retirement. People retire and it's like, now what am I going to do? Just encouraging at every level.
Suzy Gray (03:17):
And I do think where he talks about choosing your responsibilities.
Andy Stanley (03:21):
That was great.
Suzy Gray (03:22):
I though that was one of the most helpful things. I actually loved what he said about you're either riding on a horse in a saddle riding backwards or looking backwards, or you're riding on a horse in a saddle facing forward. And fueling the fire allows you to look forward and you fuel your fire by choosing your responsibility. And I just thought that was such a really interesting thought of the self-accountability for the responsibilities you've chosen is what fuels you forward.
Andy Stanley (03:54):
And he makes the point that that's really what freedom is. Yes. Freedom isn't doing nothing or just coming up with something to do. Freedom is actually the freedom to choose a responsibility and then hold yourself accountable to it. And that is a liberating thought that I can choose a responsibility, not just a task or a job, but something I'm responsible for and then hold myself accountable to it. And he said in most cases that people who understand this, they choose a responsibility that's outward facing. It's not for them. It's for somebody else. In service of others. And it may not be public. It could be, you know what? I'm going to choose a responsibility to care for a loved one or to care for an aging parent. I'm choosing a responsibility. I'm free. This isn't a burden. I'm not a prisoner to something. I've chosen this responsibility.
(04:46):
I'm holding myself accountable to it. Or it may be something in the world or for the world. Anyway, it was just a reframing again of something we've seen other people live out. And sometimes we just need terminology to know how to carry those things forward. So that's a great idea.
Suzy Gray (05:01):
And how to flip that saddle around. So you're not looking backwards to the good old days, but you're looking forward to what's fueling this next season. So I think for leaders as they're kind of considering whether it's a cliff that they're about to come off with their company's being sold and they have to do something different or whether it's somebody that's getting toward the latter, maybe third of what would be their normal career, this is such a way to say, "Hey, think of what's fueling you. Think of where you come into frame, what you're encoded for, and how do you start moving in that direction now?"
Andy Stanley (05:36):
I know Ronald Reagan said it. I don't know if it was original with him or if he quoted somebody else, but he made the statement, "When your memories exceed your dreams, the end is near." I think he was quoting somebody else, "When your memories exceed your dreams, the end is near." So memories is sitting on the saddle looking backwards instead of dreaming forward. And that's a depressing and inspiring idea. But again, Jim Collins has given us a different image for what it looks like to turn around and think forward. And our encoding never goes away, right? Jobs go away, opportunities go away, seasons come and go, but your encoding is permanent. So there's always something to do that is in sync with what you're encoded to do. And age is irrelevant. Health is somewhat relevant, but age is not. And again, the way he presents all that is so powerful and inspiring.
Suzy Gray (06:29):
I love what Jim left us with at the end of the podcast when he said in his conversation with Joanne, she said, "Don't pick another question to research."
Andy Stanley (06:37):
Oh gosh. Yeah, that was so good.
Suzy Gray (06:38):
Your next thing, wait for a question to pick you. Don't fill the space, wait. And I thought that is being slightly in the fog and being patient enough to say, "You know what? I'm going to wait and let it come to me. " And in the meantime, as he said, "The book is not an event. The book is a flywheel, so there's plenty to do. "
Andy Stanley (06:59):
Yep. That was extraordinary advice because again, you could sense he's like, "Wait, this is what I'm supposed to do. I need to come up with a question. I love to do research. I need to go research something." She's like, "Wait, wait, wait." You're encoded to do research, but you need to wait again, as you said, for the question to research to come to you. That was extraordinary advice.
Suzy Gray (07:17):
Very encouraging. Before we go, I want to let you know about an exciting change to the coming Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast. Beginning next month, you can access Andy's leadership podcast on YouTube as well as the podcast platform you currently use. And we're kicking off this new format with a discussion of Andy's brand new book, What Great Leaders Do: Seven Essentials to Maximize Your Leadership Impact. Also, we're moving to a new release schedule. New episodes will release on the first and third Mondays of every month. You'll find all these updates and more in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Reverb. If you found this helpful, share it with another leader. And as always, subscribe wherever you listen and visit andystanley.com/podcast for more resources to help you go even further faster.