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Suzy Gray (00:03):
Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast Reverb, a conversation designed to help leaders go even further faster by digging deeper into this month's episode. I'm your host, Suzy Gray. Last week, Andy was joined by his executive assistant of nearly 30 years, Diane Grant, for a conversation about their partnership and how that relationship can become a genuine leadership advantage. Today, we want to explore the changes Andy had to make as a leader for them to get that high functioning relationship they have today. So Andy, let's start with how you're wired. We talked a little bit about this with Diane. You're an Enneagram one, so is she. And letting go of control, especially over personal things like your calendar and email probably didn't come naturally. What was that process like for you?
Andy Stanley (00:49):
Yeah, we talked a little bit about that, but I'm glad we're coming back to that because the control issue really is a thing.
(00:57):
And my desire to control certain things became an obstacle for her to be able to do her job. And you've experienced that with me as well. And so that's a big deal. And I think that's worth reiterating because oftentimes leaders have not control issues, but we are accustomed to being in control. And I don't like feeling pressured to make a decision when I don't want to make the decision. I don't want to feel pressure to make a decision based on somebody else's schedule, not my own. And there is a time and a place to slow down the decision making process. But I had to learn, okay, for super important things, maybe. But for most of the day-to-day things or even the week to week things, Andy, just make a decision. And if I'm not ready to make the decision and it's not a big decision, just say, "Susie, you decide." In fact, you've gotten emails from me that just said, "You decide." And Diane has received email from me that just says, "You decide." Or I'll just look at her and say, "You know what?
(01:51):
You're more aware of and more acquainted with the details of this. I trust you. You decide." And again, setting her free or setting you free to move ahead because you're both very progress oriented and that's the kind of people we want around us. So I've just had to learn. It is kind of a control thing, but I don't have to make every decision. And the decision can be, I'm not going to decide you decide.That's the decision.
Suzy Gray (02:20):
That's a decision.
Andy Stanley (02:21):
And everybody moves forward. And if you're surrounded by trustworthy people, the right decisions are going to be made.
Suzy Gray (02:28):
Right. And I loved it. Talking about decisions, I loved the thing that Diane said last episode about she decided to be patient and she decided to wait. This applies everywhere. I mean, even to my kids, I'm like, the only thing that you have a choice about is your reaction.
Andy Stanley (02:44):
Yeah, our response.
Suzy Gray (02:45):
Yeah. And how you react to something that you can't control is the only thing that you do have agency over. Yep. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. When Diane was saying in those moments, she chose by conscious decision to be patient and to probably gear down a little bit. And I think the more that she did that, probably the more that you were like, "Hey, she's ready and she's going to have the appropriate posture regardless.
Andy Stanley (03:11):
She also pushes back when, hey, they really need to know.
Suzy Gray (03:15):
It's a big deal.
Andy Stanley (03:16):
Yeah. There are deadlines and then there are
Suzy Gray (03:19):
Deadlines.
Andy Stanley (03:19):
Deadlines. We've got to know. And again, our relationship, again, almost 30 years,
(03:24):
It's great. So I would say to the leader who's listening, don't let your ego become a factor with your admin assistant or your executive assistant. You have the position, you're in charge. Don't be threatened by that. Again, it's emotional intelligence. It's like, okay, I know what's going on inside of me. This is an Andy thing. You got your feelings heard or this is a pride thing or you feel pressured. Just set that aside and just put the organization first and just make the decision. Deal with your emotions and your ego later. And we all have that. I think that's part of the reason this works. And I think this is worth repeating. Diane would quit rather than either being mistreated or if I just continued to make bad decisions or decided I'm going to leverage the organization for my own benefit. I mean, any of those kind of wobbly things-
Suzy Gray (04:18):
Yeah, she would not put up with that.
Andy Stanley (04:19):
No. And you wouldn't either. No. Again, these are important guardrails for organizational leaders.
Suzy Gray (04:25):
Well, so what criteria do you use to decide when something should stay with you and when you can just go, "You know what? I'm going to let that go. " What is that internal filter for you? Is it scope? Is it importance? How do you make that decision?
Andy Stanley (04:39):
A big part of it for me is to what degree does this decision reflect on me personally or the organization overall? And if it's going to reflect on me personally, those are the things that I tend to hold a little bit closer. She's not just representing the organization, she's representing me. For example-
Suzy Gray (04:59):
As a person.
Andy Stanley (05:00):
Yeah. For example, people from the outside of the organization will email with theological questions or, "Hey, you said in this message this and I don't think ... " And so she is willing to address even that level of email in a general sense. But sometimes those kinds of questions, I feel like, okay, they're asking me what I think, not what does our organization do or what does our organization think.
Suzy Gray (05:27):
You personally.
Andy Stanley (05:28):
Me personally. And usually those are not time sensitive questions. That's a, "Hey, let me handle that. " But here's what she'll do. The next time we get together, she'll say, "That email from Ron so- and-so from so- and-so, did you respond to him?" I'm like,
Suzy Gray (05:43):
"No.
Andy Stanley (05:45):
No." And then she says, "Would you like for me to respond?" And I'm like, "Yes. I've been sitting on it a week. I intended to do this. " So she's great about letting me have it and she's great about circling back around to say, "Did you follow up?" Because again, sometimes she'll say, "Do you want me to call this person?" No, I'll call them. And then she'll send me, she'll text me immediately, "Here's the name, here's the question, or here's the issue, here's their concern, here's their cell number." And then I'll leave, go home with it two or three days later. She'll ask about it because she feels responsible for how we are interfacing, not just with people even in our church, but all over the place. So she's great about it. She lets me have it and then she follows up, which I need.
(06:29):
And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, you know what, let me do that right now." And I'll just stand up, go in the office-
Suzy Gray (06:33):
Do it.
Andy Stanley (06:33):
... make the call, come back 15 minutes later.
Suzy Gray (06:36):
It's done.
Andy Stanley (06:37):
It's done, we pick up and we move forward. So that kind of accountability, for some leaders, that's going to get on their nerves, and that's just an ego thing. That's just a pride thing. Yeah, you forgot. Yeah, you procrastinated. They're not bugging you, they're reminding you because they care. So those are just internal things. Somebody in my position has to work through-
Suzy Gray (06:57):
Navigate.
Andy Stanley (06:58):
And that's different for different people.
Suzy Gray (07:00):
Definitely. So how do you think your partnership with Diane has changed the quality of your decisions when you're tired or stressed or under pressure?
Andy Stanley (07:09):
Here's what I've learned to do. And again, I'll slow to this. We have a scheduled time that we sit down and go through the mail and the calendar and all that sort of thing. That is not the time for me to process with her about either personal things, things I'm just thinking about with the organization. So what I've had to discipline myself to do is during the week when there's 15 minutes between appointments or I finish something and there's nothing on the calendar to just sit down in her office and just talk, say, "Here's some stuff I'm thinking about. " Because one thing I'm really bad at is I don't keep her up to date with my thinking on things from time to time. So here she is doing the job, moving things forward, and then I've been thinking about something, or maybe I've had a discussion with somebody else and I just haven't updated her on what I'm thinking about.
(08:06):
I've learned that is so important. And when I do that and I engage her in those conversations, she is so helpful In helping me just think through things that are super organizationally related or maybe somewhat organizationally related.
Suzy Gray (08:22):
She so wise.
Andy Stanley (08:23):
Yeah.
Suzy Gray (08:24):
Yeah
Andy Stanley (08:24):
If I don't ... The thing is, she's not going to make an appointment for us to just chat. right?
Suzy Gray (08:30):
Chat, No.
Andy Stanley (08:31):
And I'm not either. But instead of just walking through the office to go wander around or go drive to Starbucks because I've got space to use that time to just sit down, interrupt whatever she's doing and just bring that element into the conversation. It is so helpful and it is so important, but that's on me because she's not going to schedule ... Let's catch up. How are you doing? How are things with the kids?
Suzy Gray (08:58):
Just chat.
Andy Stanley (08:59):
Yeah, let's just chat. Again, because I trust her. And I think having that level of trust with an admin assistant or executive assistant is important. And the other thing we didn't talk about in the podcast that is so helpful, she has eyes and ears on staff at a level that I don't.
(09:19):
And because she meets with the other admin assistants and the other executive assistants, she often knows things that are going on relationally or personally with the staff that it's not ever going to get to me unless she brings it to me. She helps me be a better pastor and just a better person relationally with staff. I mean, whether it's something going on with somebody's child, a marriage, if it's appropriate to talk about somebody that ... There's kind of some drama down in this department or division. I just want you to be aware of it. There's nothing you need to do about it, but you should just be aware.
Suzy Gray (09:57):
Aware.
Andy Stanley (09:57):
Aware. So because of her eyes and ears on the organization and in the organization, again, that is so helpful. And it's not gossip. It's the stuff that I'm ultimately responsible for that I don't know anything about if it doesn't somehow filter up to me. And so she's great about that. And then the other thing too, and for the pastors who are listening, and maybe there's application in the marketplace as well, on Sundays, I am so focused on what I'm doing, whether getting ready for the welcome or the message. And Diane, through the years, has been great about wandering around the building and catching people doing great things and coming back on a Monday or Tuesday and say, "Hey, I went over to transit. I went over to Upstreat. I walked through and they did a fabulous job. You weren't able to go out in the lobby and see, but you need to talk to the group, the team that put that together." So she helps me be grateful for things I don't know to be grateful for.
Suzy Gray (10:59):
Yeah
Andy Stanley (10:59):
That if I did know about them, I would be grateful. I would immediately call or text or say, "Hey, that was amazing, good job." But now I can say, "Hey, Diane was walking through and saw, and she said you did a great job with that presentation. Hey, thank you. " So being my eyes and ears in those environments that I don't have time to visit, for her to compliment it and for the staff to know that she complimented it and it got to me, that's just good symbolic leadership. And again, this is one reason I've told her on Sundays, "You don't need to follow me around. I'm good. I know what to do. I've got other folks helping me. " So on Sundays, just use that time to, again,
(11:48):
Be the eyes and ears with what's happening around the building and the different environments. And again, in a corporate environment, there may be a different application of that, but her compliments weigh a lot. Her words weigh a lot because of her position in the organization, just like mine do. And again, this goes back to what we talked about, the importance of realizing that the isolation that the point leader feels in the same way that the admin assistant or the executive assistant is going to feel a little bit of that isolation as well, but it also gives their words weight. She has a lot of influence in the organization.
Suzy Gray (12:25):
Yeah. I think there's a direct correlation of that example to the corporate world because whether it's the CEO or division leader or whatever it is, usually doesn't know what's happening three, four, five layers down. But if they have a partner, an executive assistant that can either systematically gather information or if it's appropriate in the context, walk the floor, there's an opportunity to elevate things that might otherwise been elevated. So I think that's really great.
Andy Stanley (12:52):
And one more thing on that, and she is so aware of this. It's so important that people don't feel like she's spying. And this is why anytime I can give positive feedback to an individual or a team based on what she's observed, they'll realize, oh, she wasn't spying. She was appreciated.
Suzy Gray (13:14):
She's looking for something to celebrate.
Andy Stanley (13:16):
Yeah, she just walking around and looking. So keeping that feedback positive publicly. And then if there's something that needs to be addressed privately, individually, but those things are pretty rare. HR
Suzy Gray (13:31):
Right!
Andy Stanley (13:32):
Keeps me apprised of those things. So this is more relational. So anyway.
Suzy Gray (13:36):
Right. Well, obviously those are all the good times, but I'm sure there's been times that things didn't go well and you had to learn something about you in the process. What is an example of something that maybe it didn't go the way you expected. You handed Diane something and it didn't go the way you expected or she did something you didn't want her to do. What did you learn in that process?
Andy Stanley (13:57):
Well, her tendency, which I like, this is a good thing, is to be more proactive rather than less proactive.
Suzy Gray (14:04):
Definitely.
Andy Stanley (14:05):
That's an advantage. But obviously there are times, and I can't think of an example, honestly, they're so few and far between, but every once in a while, she would kind of get out ahead of, not ahead of her skis, but thinking, okay, this is something that needs to be done. I don't know when I'm going to be able to talk to Andy about it. So I'm just going to act and instead of getting permission, maybe I'll have to get forgiveness. And nine times out of 10, I'm like- Thank you. Exactly. I'm like, "Oh, Diane, I totally forgot or Diane, I didn't even think about that. Well, don't worry, I took care of it. " I mean, I would much rather have that. So the only, I don't know, conflict may be too strong of a term is when that propensity, which I appreciate so much, I don't want to say goes too far, but again, if there's a gap, she's going to fill it.
(14:53):
If there's a need, she's going to try to meet it. But again, I can't even think of an example, but that would be, I guess, the downside of that kind of personality or somebody who really sees themself as a partner rather than somebody who's just sitting there waiting to be asked to do something.
Suzy Gray (15:09):
And that probably, those instances probably had you think, was she waiting for an answer and couldn't wait any longer or was she filling a gap that she didn't know how to fill otherwise?
Andy Stanley (15:18):
Or somebody needed an answer.
Suzy Gray (15:20):
Right.
Andy Stanley (15:20):
Yeah.
Suzy Gray (15:21):
Yeah. So it allowed you to kind of go, "Oh, okay, maybe that's one of those things that we need to talk about in our process more, whatever it is. " Yeah, that's great. So Andy, as we wrap this episode of Reverb, there are a lot of leaders out there who think, "You know what? I don't need an executive assistant or an admin assistant. I can just handle it. I've got it. I don't need it. I want to manage my own things the way I want to manage my own things." What would you say to that leader or maybe even that version of yourself years ago?
Andy Stanley (15:46):
Well, I met leaders like that and part of it, I get this, they don't want to have to navigate another relationship and they don't say it like that, but that's kind of it. It's like, well, if I add that person, now I have another relationship. And again, he or she may be helpful, but it's also a relationship. It's another direct report. And a lot of leaders, especially very entrepreneurial leaders, they don't want any direct reports and they operate better that way. So I don't think it's a right or wrong thing. It depends on the nature of the organization, the size of the organization and the personality of the leader. But generally speaking, and I guess maybe an answer to the question, because it is a good question, is then they don't need a Diane. They need somebody who's just going to do this, do this, do this, do this.
Suzy Gray (16:36):
Take the tasks.
Andy Stanley (16:36):
Take the task, work through the to- do list. It would really perhaps be more like the individual we talked about last time when our business administrator and I shared an admin assistant and she realized I'd rather work for Rick than for Andy. And again, I just celebrated her for that decision, but that was more her lane, just give me things to do, leave me alone, I'm going to get them done, bring them back, check the box. So again, and this is why the beginning of the conversation last time was so important when you asked Diane about the two different types of admin assistants. And so for the person who's just constantly on the road, constantly on the go, they just need somebody they can just hand things off to. And honestly, our sponsor, Belay, that's one of the extraordinary gifts that they have given to that kind of leader who doesn't want somebody sitting in office
Suzy Gray (17:28):
Right.
Andy Stanley (17:28):
They may not even have an office, but there are things that need to get done. There's information that needs to get to them. And so the automation of all that is an extraordinary gift to that kind of leader. So it really just depends.
Suzy Gray (17:41):
Yeah, that is true. I mean, one size doesn't fit all, but figuring what you need and getting that support is critical.
Andy Stanley (17:48):
Yep. And it may change from season to season.
Suzy Gray (17:50):
Yeah, definitely. Well, Andy, that is all the time we have today. Thanks as always for diving deeper on this month's topic. And to all of our listeners, thanks for listening to this episode of Reverb. If you found it helpful, be sure to leave a review or pass it along to another leader. And as always, subscribe wherever you listen and check out andystanley.com/podcast for more resources to help you go even further, faster.