Listen to the podcast.
Andy Stanley (00:03):
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed to help leaders go further, faster. I'm Andy Stanley, and today I will be your host because I have my friend Glen Jackson back in the studio with me this month to conclude our discussion on what it means to be a preeminent organization. Again, Glen, thanks so much for being with us. As I mentioned last month, Glen is the co-founder of Jackson Spalding, one of the most, if not the most respected marketing communications agency in the Southeast with a significant and growing national presence. Jackson Spalding has earned its share of awards for their excellent client work from public relations to creative work to really all elements of storytelling. Glen, you've got over 130 team members. That's a big payroll, which means you're busy and growing and a lot of energy at your company. And a lot of our employees have enjoyed coming over there and just seeing your space and they come back here with all kinds of expensive ideas about what we need to do in our offices.
(00:58):
So if you wouldn't do so much of that, it might be helpful.
Glen Jackson (01:01):
I'll turn that down on the hub.
Andy Stanley (01:03):
And one of the things that means so much for us in the Atlanta area is you have been ranked one of the best agencies to work for. Some of Glen's clients are Coca-Cola, Toyota, Chick-fil-A, Publix, Delta, and Orkin, just to name a few. So as we jump back into this discussion, Glen, refresh our memories a little bit. When you talk about a company that has reached the status of preeminence, what do you mean?
Glen Jackson (01:27):
What I mean by that, Andy, is that preeminence is extraordinary excellence. Once reached and sustained, creates a competitive advantage. Again, it's extraordinary excellence once reached and sustained creates a competitive advantage.
Andy Stanley (01:42):
And last month we talked about the fact that you know you have become a preeminent organization, not based on profit, not based on a number of clients or customers, but based on what your peers say about you within an industry or even organizations outside your industry, that you become the organization other organizations want to emulate, want to visit, want to send their folks to see, ask the questions, look for the secret sauce. And so for those of us in organizational life, that's a different metric. That's a bit of a different filter through which to evaluate the strength and the health of our organizations.
Glen Jackson (02:16):
Yeah, I think that's absolutely right, Andy. You know you've reached preeminence when others aspire to achieve what you are sustaining.
Andy Stanley (02:24):
Glen, last month you introduced what you call the seven pillars that characterize a preeminent organization and we covered three of them last month. They were trust, relationship building and marketing communications. And again, if you missed last month's podcast, you really need to go back and listen to Glen explain those first three. Today I want us to jump right in to number four. What's the fourth pillar of a preeminent organization?
Glen Jackson (02:46):
The fourth pillar is assessment and it's critically important.
Andy Stanley (02:51):
And by assessment, are you talking about evaluation or is it broader than that?
Glen Jackson (02:55):
It's always assessing your business with some key questions that you need to ask yourself to make sure you are on the business, not just in the business, Andy.
Andy Stanley (03:03):
Yeah, the idea of working on it rather than in it is something we talk about all the time. Somehow this was terminology that got woven into the fabric of our organization. Talk a little bit more. What's the difference between working on it and working in it?
Glen Jackson (03:17):
There's a dramatic difference, Andy. I think working in the business is just the day-to-day functions of your business as a whole. But when you're working on the business, you're looking at the business with a wide angle lens and you are taking a very, very, very broader look and perspective at your business and trying to make it better with some systematic questions you need to ask yourself.
Andy Stanley (03:39):
And that's one of the things that none of us have time to do, but it's absolutely critical in order to create any kind of sustainable energy or any kind of sustainable progress, regardless of what kind of business we're in, working on it, not just in it. Digging a little deeper, what are, for lack of a better phrase, some breadcrumb questions that fall under the idea of assessment? When you think about assessing your organization, working on it, not just in it, what are some of the questions that you ask?
Glen Jackson (04:05):
Well, I think these questions I'm about to go over are so important because I think the assessment pillar, if you don't have the assessment pillar, you will not be preeminent, Andy. It's that important. So these questions, you can phrase them however you want to phrase them, but the questions for me from our experiences, one is what do we need to anticipate? That's a question that's always good to ask. What's out there that's a potential opportunity, for example, for us to take advantage of or conversely, something we need to be mindful of, a potential pitfall we need to be careful about as we anticipate.
Andy Stanley (04:39):
That's a great question. What do we need to anticipate? Second question.
Glen Jackson (04:43):
What do we need to fix? This is a short-term immediate need, maybe a piece of technology or your phone system. It's kind of like the nail on your tire. You need to get that nail out of your tire. So what do we need to fix is the next question. And then the follow-up to that is what do we need to improve? Which is more of a broader long-term perspective question as you're looking at bigger issues of your business and how to improve those things.
Andy Stanley (05:09):
So what do we need to anticipate? What do we need to fix? What do we need to improve? Number four?
Glen Jackson (05:14):
Number four is where can we innovate more effectively? Innovation, as we all know, is so important. And I think asking that question intentionally will help you really zoom in on the areas of innovation you need to focus on for your business. And
Andy Stanley (05:30):
This fifth question was a surprise question when I first saw that. The fifth question is -
Glen Jackson (05:36):
Yes, it is. How and where can we give back? It's about obviously any business should be, I believe, about great work and good works. And this question relates to the good works piece. And then the next question is, how am I growing as a leader? I believe very strongly that leadership growth leads to revenue growth, Andy. So this kind of puts the question back on each of us individually to pose, how am I growing as a leader? And to really think about that.
Andy Stanley (06:04):
And then I love the seventh question because that is something I've been asking all my life.
Glen Jackson (06:09):
Yes. What is the wise thing to do? And thank you for that. These are the assessment questions.
Andy Stanley (06:15):
Now let me just push back, putting on my organizational leader hat. These are great questions. Nobody pushes back on the idea of assessment and evaluation and you're not going to get any better if you don't evaluate. One of my professors used to say experience doesn't make you better. Only evaluated experience makes you better. Experience just puts you in a rut. The challenge with these excellent questions are they're really kind of a pain in the neck because I come to work every day like most people to get things done and to make progress and to move the organization down the field. And in our world it's here comes Sunday, here comes Sunday, here comes Sunday. These questions, in fact, any one of these questions to ask in a boardroom or in a leadership team meeting or a management team meeting leads to potentially hours of conversation with all kinds of ideas and suggestions.
(07:05):
And so I think as an organizational leader sometime as important as those questions are, I think we push back sometimes because we're afraid of what we're going to hear, we're afraid of what we're going to find out, and we're afraid that when the meeting's over, we're going to have more homework. Now, so having laid those out for our podcast audience, do you as an organizational leader ever feel that? I mean, it's fun to teach these things, but when you're sitting in with your management team or leadership team and they say, "Hey, I think there's something we need to fix," does your heart sink just a little bit?
Glen Jackson (07:38):
It does.
Andy Stanley (07:38):
Good.
Glen Jackson (07:40):
Absolutely. And sometimes it's the place of where you need to ask these questions. Sometimes, for example, we need to get away from our office environment. These are getaway questions.
Andy Stanley (07:52):
These are working on it, not in it. Yeah.
Glen Jackson (07:54):
Absolutely.
Andy Stanley (07:54):
Don't bring these up Monday when we're evaluating.
Glen Jackson (07:56):
Hey, by the way, there's a nail on the toe talking about. Okay, let's talk about this later.
Andy Stanley (08:00):
But your point is to be a preeminent organization and to be an organization other organizations look at and say, wow, they're getting it done. What can we learn from them? Somebody in that organization and somewhere in that organization, these questions are being asked on a regular basis.
Glen Jackson (08:16):
Yes. Yes. And different people are asking them and that's a good thing.
Andy Stanley (08:20):
The fifth pillar appears to be something that everyone is talking about and has talked about for so long that perhaps it's lost a little bit of its grit, but you've added some words around a common leadership idea. Number five is the cultural torch of servant leadership. Servant leadership's not a new idea, but the cultural torch. What do you mean by that?
Glen Jackson (08:42):
I think that the best cultures, preeminent companies have a torch that they carry with them every single day. And this torch is attractive, it's warm, it's bright and other people notice it and want to be around it. And externally, when you carry that cultural torch around, other people notice and it helps strengthen your brand and it also obviously strengthens your reputation and growth as a business.
Andy Stanley (09:08):
And the torch is servant leadership.
Glen Jackson (09:11):
It is. And it is such an important thing. Servant leadership for me is about being mindful of the fact that no task is too small or too big for the servant leader. It's about little things and big things.
Andy Stanley (09:28):
And again, you've added the phrase the cultural torch. So when you refer to culture, what specifically are you talking about?
Glen Jackson (09:35):
Sure. Culture for me is, I define it like Adam Bryant does in his book, Quick and imbal so well, that healthy cultures are places where ideas and people flourish. It's like being in a greenhouse where the nutrients and the light and the energy are helping grow your team members and the overall business as a whole. So that's the external part. I think cultures are like a torch. They shine, but there are other things too.
Andy Stanley (10:06):
And all of us understand the connection between preeminence, the way that you define it and a healthy organization. Because when I look at an organization that I envy, it's not generally their product or even specific people in the organization, it's their culture. It just seems like a great organization. So again, drilling down on this, what are some characteristics of a healthy culture from your perspective?
Glen Jackson (10:28):
Well, I think as we talked about earlier, healthy cultures do shine externally. I think they also do some other things. They attract and retain top talent. They actualize, Andy. In other words, they take people and they actualize their potential. So healthy cultures actualize. They also permeate. So inside the business, the culture gets inside your DNA, your bone marrow, if you will, and it's permeating inside of you, that culture. So that's a case. I think also healthy cultures bond. There's always bonding traditions and healthy cultures have a lot of bonding traditions. They also eject. So just like the body kind of ejects a virus, they will eject folks culturally that just aren't good fits. That happens a lot. And then finally, I think healthy cultures deliver. They deliver rewards before they deliver results. The rewards drive the results. And I've identified four awards I think are important.
Andy Stanley (11:26):
Now let's talk about that. Let me say that again if I heard you correctly, that healthy cultures deliver rewards and results, but they deliver the reward before the result. And as you answer that, what specifically are you referring to when you say reward?
Glen Jackson (11:40):
Yeah, there are four rewards. I think these rewards drive the results. The first reward that every healthy culture is providing team members is fun. I think they're having fun with what they do. Number two is fascination. Particularly seeing this with the millennial generation that they're fascinated with the intellectual pursuit of the business. They are fascinated with how it's growing and what the next turn is around the corner. You want to have a business, an organization that's always fascinating your people. So that's the second element of rewards. The third is future. You want folks to see that I have a future here. This is something that I want to be part of for a long time. And then finally, there's another reward and that's another F, and that's financial. Y want to take care of your people the right way and make sure they're rewarded.
Andy Stanley (12:31):
So when those four things are in place in our organization, it shapes the culture that then leads to what you refer to as results. Correct. So that's what you mean, the rewards precede the results. That's a big idea. Wow.
Glen Jackson (12:41):
Yeah, and those rewards will then drive the result.
Andy Stanley (12:43):
Once again, that's enough content for an entire leadership podcast to just talk about organizational culture because we talk about that a lot and it's so important, but let's step back a little bit. This pillar is the cultural torch of servant leadership. So put all this together for us.
Glen Jackson (12:58):
Well, I first saw this in action, the cultural torch of servant leadership back in 1995 with Truitt Cathy, the founder of Chick-fil-A, Andy. Our first business trip I ever took at Jackson Spalding was to Washington C. And I sat in the back of the Delta plane before we took off and I looked up and Truitt was on the plane with his senior management team. And I had just gotten some freshly minted business cards and I was thinking maybe I should give him one of my cards. I held off. And we ended up in Dulles Airports and I was in the men's room at Baggage Clay at 10:30 in the morning. Not a soul was in there, me washing my hands and then the door opened and Truitt comes in. And he's washing his hands too to my immediate left. And I looked at him and I said, "It's easier to succeed than to fail," which was his first book.
(13:49):
And he looked at me with that twinkle in his eye and he had that distinctive voice and he said, "That's right. What's your name?"
Andy Stanley (13:56):
That's pretty good, Glen.
Glen Jackson (13:57):
And I told him my name and he reached in and he gave me a BOG card is what Chick-fil-A calls him. A BR guest card and said, "You keep that. This is for me. Good luck with your business."
Andy Stanley (14:10):
And for those of you who are listening, Glen just handed me that card. You've kept how many years? Since 1995.
Glen Jackson (14:17):
Yeah, so I've kept it in my wallet every day until we started working for Chick-fil-A seven years after that.
Andy Stanley (14:21):
So he handed this to you in the men's room.
Glen Jackson (14:23):
He did.
Andy Stanley (14:24):
That makes it unique as well. Sign by him. Yeah, I'm in the men's room.That's amazing. But
Glen Jackson (14:28):
That's not the end of the story.
Andy Stanley (14:29):
Yeah. So what happened?
Glen Jackson (14:30):
That's not the end of the story. He walks out, he goes over to baggage claim, and there was a young lady on our plane about four months pregnant. And I look over and there's Truitt getting her luggage off the conveyor belt. He gets it all set up on a little push cart for her and she looks at him and says, "Thank you. " And of course he says, "My pleasure." And for a 31-year-old entrepreneur, businessman, just wet behind the ears entrepreneur, it showed me first, no task is too small for the servant leader. But later he went and gave a huge talk to the Washington Press Club at noon - That same day. That same day. Yeah. No task is too big for the servant leader. And then the next year he met with the president of the United States. It was just an amazing moment to observe.
(15:19):
And it all started in the men's room and baggage cleaner.
Andy Stanley (15:23):
That's amazing. The cultural torch of servant leadership. The sixth pillar to become a preeminent organization is fanatical focus. We talk a lot about focus. Let's talk about fanatical focus.
Glen Jackson (15:37):
Yeah, it's always focusing on what you do best. That's what fanatical focus is all about. It's staying in your swim lane and staying patient and never forcing a decision. I think great organizations that are preeminent are never, Andy, distracted by their success. They have unbelievable focus and they say no to things that could blur their focus and their overarching vision. Like you've said many times over and over again to me and to others, opportunity doesn't equal obligation. We're going to say no to this. And they keep going fanatically focused preeminent business on what they need to do.
Andy Stanley (16:13):
Again, this is one of those things that probably nobody pushes back on, but the question is how do you do that? How in a busy, busy world where we don't want to miss good opportunities and every time we turn around, there's a new opportunity. And for our listeners who are in organizations that have strong cashflow and strong cashflow is a danger when opportunities abound, how do you remain focused? What have you learned through the years about the focus part?
Glen Jackson (16:38):
Well, one of the main things I've learned is it takes discipline, Andy. I think sticking to a process is really important. So the right process leads to the right results. So whatever your process is, you stick to it. I think preeminent businesses do that. Personally, I have a mindset that we just opened our doors today at Jackson Spalding every day at our agency.
Andy Stanley (17:01):
What do you mean by that? That you begin the day thinking, what if we just opened?
Glen Jackson (17:05):
We just did. It reminds me of the first day when we opened our doors to never take anything for granted. We started with humble beginnings in 95 and it just keeps me alert and focused. I walk into our office every day and I say to myself, "We just opened our doors today." And that just motivates me every day to deliver the results for our clients that they deserve. And it keeps me humble and hungry. It keeps me gracious and ambitious. And yes, we had a lot of rented furniture and cheesy posters in the early days, but I would not take for granted any of that because it has kept us grounded and reminds me every day we need to execute for our clients and deliver results. A couple other thoughts on this, I've learned that success is sequential. You keep your focus, it's linear before geometric.
(18:01):
You keep your focus one step at a time. The tortoise beat the hair for a reason and ASAP's fable. Why? Because he took one good step after another. Coach K at Duke yells this to his players after each play on the court, he yells out next play. For them to hear it and to focus on that next play, fanatically focused companies are extremely focused on the next play, Andy.
Andy Stanley (18:24):
So number six, fanatical focus. Before we go to number seven, what's at stake when organizations lose focus? What you happen? Great question. What should we be so afraid of we dare not take our eye off the ball?
Glen Jackson (18:36):
My thoughts here are that when you lose focus, one of the main things at stake is you lose momentum and you start saying yes to opportunities that you were in the sharply focused days saying no to. And I've seen also a lot of companies, they get distracted by their pressures, not their priorities when they're not focused.
Andy Stanley (18:56):
That is a big idea.
Glen Jackson (18:57):
That is big.
Andy Stanley (18:57):
Distracted by pressures rather than priorities.
Glen Jackson (19:00):
Whereas they were focused on their priorities. So your process gets frayed. We talked about how the right process leads to the right results. It slips a little, it gets phrased. And then finally, I've seen this a lot, you're not sleeping on decisions. I like to sleep on things and I'll just say, let's give it the sleep committee. We'll talk about it next morning.
Andy Stanley (19:20):
The sleep committee.
Glen Jackson (19:21):
Yeah. You end up just not thinking through things well enough and you're making quick decisions in the end you regret them. That's one of the many things that happens when you lose your focus.
Andy Stanley (19:33):
I have a friend that you may know, Rick Jackson, who owns several healthcare companies. I heard him ask this question. He said you should always ask, what would you do or what would we do if we didn't have any money? What would we do if we didn't have any money? I love that question. Great question. It's the suddenly we go from broad to narrow very quickly. What would we do if we didn't have any money? Or as you said a while ago, if this was our very first day or thinking like first day, all of those things are so great. Okay, this is great stuff. Number seven, the seventh pillar for creating a preeminent company is resiliency.
Glen Jackson (20:05):
Yeah. Boy, this is huge. What is resiliency? How do you define it? I think it's a lot about stamina. I will say to our folks a lot, we're in the stamina business. It involves grit. It involves determination, unyielding commitment to getting the job done, not giving up, not giving out, not giving in. That's what resilient companies are all about. They navigate the peaks and valleys well of the marketplace too around them and they're never blown off course, Andy, by the storms. And I think that one thing that I've really stressed to myself is it's easier to become a success than to remain a success.
Andy Stanley (20:44):
Absolutely. Yep.
Glen Jackson (20:46):
And Jimmy Collins at Chick-fil-A, former president of Chick-fil-A made this point over and over again. And I say that a lot to our folks and I have a remain mindset. I think preeminent companies do. The word remains written on a little card by my desk, by my phone. And I see that card every day when I'll walk into our office and look at it and it reminds me it's easier to become a success than to remain a success remain.
Andy Stanley (21:15):
As you know, most organizations in some way reflect the founder or reflect the CEO or reflect the person that's making the decisions. When it comes to resiliency, I mean, we think of resiliency as a personal trait. There are resilient people. We don't think in terms of resilient companies, but our whole discussion for these two months have been evolved around you taking terms that we generally app to individuals and apping them to organizations. So are resilient companies generally led by resilient people? Certainly there's a connection.
Glen Jackson (21:46):
They are. There's an extreme connection between the two. And if you look at a lot of the great companies in business today, you see many, many resilient leaders who strive, who strain, who stretch themselves to do what? To succeed. So they strive, they stretch, they strain and they succeed and everybody's watching them. And I think that is just absolutely critical as a leader. John Maxwell talked a lot about people do what people see in you lead by example. So they're watching you, people do what people see in you. And great leaders understand that and they do it.
Andy Stanley (22:26):
Do you believe resiliency reflects itself in competitive advantage? Does it actually show up in the product and sales and services? Does resiliency get outside the culture of an organization? Does it really add to the bottom line?
Glen Jackson (22:39):
It does. I think that it adds to the bottom line. And while some, for example, some of your competitors may fade away because of the economic headwinds around you, preeminent companies thrive over time. Time is actually their friend, Andy. I saw this a lot during the Great Recession a few years ago. A lot of companies faded away while others took advantage of the opportunity and started businesses. Uber started during the Great Recession. Airbnb during the Great Recession, they took advantage of the opportunity. Public supermarkets, over 85 years now, they have never had a layoff in their history. And they started during the Great Depression. Wow. They started during the Great Depression. I was there a few days ago during a terrible lightning storm we had in Atlanta recently. And I looked over and there were four Publix folks walking people to the car with umbrellas to make sure their groceries were safe and secure and they were okay.
(23:37):
Those are the kind of things that resilient companies do, and it just motivated me to see that. So yes, there is a competitive advantage connected back to resiliency.
Andy Stanley (23:46):
Well, Glen, you have given us a lot to think about, not just on this episode of the podcast, but last month as well. Any concluding thoughts about a preeminent organization and the journey that you've been on?
Glen Jackson (23:56):
Well, I'll just, again, just give the definition real quick. Preeminence is extraordinary excellence once reached and sustained creates a competitive advantage. And there's seven pillars to it, trust, relationship building, marketing communications, assessment, fanatical focus, and remarkable resiliency. These seven pillars, Andy, really, really matter. So strength for the journey for everyone listening as you continue to strive to be about extraordinary excellence and all that you do personally and professionally, I would say. So here's to achieving it, sustaining it, enjoying the journey. Good luck and Godspeed.
Andy Stanley (24:40):
Thank you so much, Glen. That's fantastic. And again, thanks for being with us these last two months on our podcast. And to all of our listeners, we want to thank you for joining us. As always, please visit our website, andystanley.com, where you can find our leadership podcast application guide that goes with today's conversation. Again, thanks so much for joining us on our leadership podcast.