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Andy Stanley (00:03):
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast where we help leaders go further, faster. I'm Andy and in the virtual studio with me again this month is my friend Patrick Lencioni. Patrick, welcome back.
Patrick Lencioni (00:15):
It's great to be back. This is going to be fun.
Andy Stanley (00:18):
Yeah, this is going to be fun. I mean, last month was fun. This is going to be really fun because we're going to talk about me and I'm super excited about that. Hey, this month, Patrick and I are actually continuing the conversation. We began last month on the topic of working geniuses. This is a brand new evaluation tool the Patch team has created. And honestly, if you miss part one of this conversation, I really recommend you hit pause and go back and listen to last month's leadership podcast because today's conversation will make a lot more sense if you do. Now, if you listened last month and you took Pat's advice and you actually downloaded the tool and took the assessment, you are really going to benefit from this conversation. And for those of you who didn't listen last month, that won't make any sense, but it will if you go back and listen.
(01:02):
Real quick, for those of you who are joining us for the first time, Pat is no stranger to the podcast and he certainly knows stranger to most of you. My guests as you've read or listened to at least one or two of Pat's 11 books, which have sold over six million copies and been translated into over 30 languages. He's one of the founders of the table group and is a pioneer in the organizational health movement. So Pat, without reviewing the entire conversation from last month, if you would, let's catch our listeners up just a little bit by reviewing what is the working genius as an assessment tool and what are the six types you've identified? And then let's talk about my profile and your profile, which is going to shed a lot of light on the profiles of the folks who actually took the assessment after last month.
(01:45):
So catch us up real quick.
Patrick Lencioni (01:47):
Quick reader's digest version. So there's six skills and talents that are necessary to get any kind of work done, a program, a project, a company. Two of those six each of us has as what we call a working genius. The way I like to look at it is like if you were to pour hot coffee into a cup and put a airtight lid on it, it would hold that energy for a long time. Our working genius is something that we love to do. We get joy and passion from it. We can hold onto that energy for a long, long time. It's something natural. Two of those six are what we call working competencies. We can do them for a while, but we don't really get that much joy and energy, but we're okay at it. That's like pouring coffee into a cup, not putting the lid on it.
(02:25):
Eventually the energy dissipates, but it can hold for a while. Then two of those six are what we would call working frustrations. That's like pouring coffee into a cup that has a hole in the bottom of it. We got no energy and passion from that or joy.
(02:40):
And so all of us, you look at these six things and there's going to be two that we just love and that's what we call our working genius. Now those six things go like this. The genius of wonder, people that ponder what's going on, ask questions and identify when there's a lack of potential or opportunity that hasn't been realized, they can sit patiently and ponder, speculate, and ask questions. That's actually a huge genius that's often misunderstood. The second one is a genius of invention. Those are the people that love to come up with novel new solutions to problems. They invent things. They come up with new concepts. They do it naturally. They love doing it. They love doing it even when it's not necessary. I have that and I just love doing ... If people ask me every day, all day, "Hey, Pat, come up with a new idea around this.
(03:27):
" I'd say, "I have the best job in the world." The next one is the genius of discernment. That's the person who knows how to evaluate things well. They use their gut, their instincts, their intuition. They can look at something and recognize patterns and say, "That's a great idea. That's not a great idea. This is what's missing here. Here's what I think we should do. They give great advice. They have really good instincts. The next one is the genius of galvanizing. They take that idea that the discerner has discerned and said, if this is worth doing, I'm going to get people in a room and I'm going to motivate them. I'm going to inspire them. I'm going to recruit them. I'm going to get things moving. The next one is the genius of enablement who responds to the galvanizer and says, "I love to help and I will be the world's greatest supporter for this.
(04:09):
I know how to come alongside and get things off the ground. I will enable this to work." The last one is the genius of tenacity. That's the person who just loves to finish things. It's not so much just about responding to the human need, but they get joy and energy out of finishing things, getting them done, seeing the results. Without all six of these, no organization, no initiative, no idea is going to come to fruition. Different people have very different geniuses as God gave them and that's why we need each other. This is such a great tool. Boy, I would love to go back, Andy, and figure out the working genius of the apostles.
Andy Stanley (04:45):
Yeah.
Patrick Lencioni (04:46):
I mean, you can just imagine Peter was probably a galvanizer, right?
Andy Stanley (04:49):
Yeah, that would be interesting. In fact, as you were talking, there's so many contexts that this would be fun to drop into. Specifically for most of our podcast listeners within an organizational system, as you think about a leadership team, having not a balance, but the right mix of these six is super important. You mentioned last time we talked about this last month that you were talking to a CEO of a company or a group and they realized that there were a couple of these that weren't represented at all at their leadership team. And so there was a gap and not just a gap in terms of interest or skillset, but really a gap in insight because my guess is that each of these six where you have a strength in one or two of these, you also have an insight or an intuition that goes with it.
(05:34):
So when a leadership team is missing one or two or three of these as strengths, you're going to miss some insight and intuition as well. So moving the conversation forward, even though there's a lot to talk about, let's talk about putting this into practice and it might help to make it super personal. Tell us about your genius list in terms of your top two, I guess your middle two, your bottom two, how that impacts how you work and you talked a little bit about this last time and having discovered this, what have you done to adjust organizationally based on that learning? I don't know. Is that a goodquestion? Is that too broad?
Patrick Lencioni (06:08):
Yeah, that's a great one. I would start by saying my first job out of college was the best job in America according to Fortune Magazine. So I got the best job. It paid a lot of money and it was in a beautiful building and I was going to have access to executives and they said, "Your career is going to be great." But the job was actually designed around my two biggest weaknesses. And my two biggest weaknesses are enablement and tenacity. I'm not good at just following directions and coming alongside and doing what people ask and I don't get a lot of joy and energy from finishing things. Okay. I started my own company 23 years ago and my two greatest gifts, my two geniuses, if you will, is invention. And by the way, a lot of people think if you're an inventor, you're a real genius.
(06:52):
They're all genius. Some people just like to do that. So I love to come up with new ideas and models and tools and books and concepts and I love discerning things. I love evaluating and curating and instinctually and intuitively assessing what would be the right idea. So concepts, ideas and evaluation, I could do that all day. The two things that I'm okay at, but if I have to do it too much, it'll drive me crazy is galvanizing. I don't like to have to make people do things they don't want to do. I don't like to have to constantly cheerlead people like, "Come on, let's do it. We can do better than that. " And I don't like to have to wonder too much. I appreciate wondering, but I can only sit and ponder for about five minutes before I want to get started inventing things.
(07:43):
So in my company, it's really good if people can tap into my invention and discernment, but I need somebody, my co-founder Amy, to be thinking like, "Pat, I think that there's something wrong in the organization." Or, "I don't think the industry has figured this out yet. I think you need to give yourself some attention there around invention." So I need a wonder, and I've had that from the very beginning. My other co-founder, Tracy, is great at Et enabled ... When we have an idea, she's like, "I'm going to do whatever needs to be done." And T, she finishes things really well. The problem was none of us are galvanizers. And so because they had galvanizing as their lowest, they hated it. And for me, it was a competency. I was doing all the galvanizing in the company and over time I was spending all of my time galvanizing, less of it inventing and discerning and I was grumpy Andy.
(08:45):
I was coming to work and they were like, "Why?" And they'd say, "What's wrong?" And I go, "I don't know. When I walked in the door, I was really happy, but 20 minutes in, all I'm doing is galvan..." And I didn't know. At the time, I had no language. I don't know. I'm just, now I'm kind of frustrated. And when we finally figured this out, we reorganized our company, elevated a few people in the organization that were good at galvanizing. You know what else we did? We had a 22 year old kid who we had just hired right out of college. He was a galvanizer. We said to him, "Liam, your job is to kick these people's butt on your team to keep them moving." And he said, "But I'm 22 years old. Some of these people are in their late 40s." We said, "It doesn't matter." The people in their late 40s said, "We don't care.
(09:25):
You're good at this. God gave you that talent. Your job is to kick our butts because we don't do that. " And he's like, "You mean I actually get to do ... I thought it'd be 20 years before I was allowed to do that. " We're like, "No, it's a gift." So that's kind of how it applies to me and how we've used it in our organization. In my family, Andy, my wife and I share one common frustration. Neither of us like to have the gift of tenacity.
Andy Stanley (09:52):
So nothing gets finished.
Patrick Lencioni (09:54):
We don't like to finish thing. We don't like to drive things. We both have great conversations and ideas. One day I came home from work and I'm not proud of this about how I handled this, but now I understand why. I came home from work and I walked in the door and I turned on the lights and they didn't go on. I said, "Hey, Laura." She goes, "Yeah, what's going on? " I said, "The power in the neighborhood's out. " She said, "No, the power's not out in the neighborhood." I said, "No, it is. " She goes, "No, it's not. " "So what's going on? " She goes, "Yeah, our power is out. " I said, "Oh, why is that? " She goes, "We forgot to pay the bill." Don't they usually send us some notices ahead of time? "Oh yeah, we got the notices.
(10:28):
I just never paid it. " Now right away, I go to judge her like, "How can we be so? " And it's like, it would've happened to me too because I'm just the same way. And at work, I've hired people that can fill in those gaps at home I thought, "Well, my wife should fill those gaps." And it's like, she doesn't have that either. Literally now I can laugh and celebrate and go, "Oh my gosh, Laura, look at another one of those things. Let's figure out how to solve this, but I'm not going to blame you. I'm not going to judge you and I'm not going to make us feel terribly guilty because for every working frustration we have, we have a genius. So let's figure out how to solve this without unnecessary guilt and judgment."
Andy Stanley (11:09):
So I assume you had all or most of your team take the assessment, then you put it on some sort of flow chart or some sort of spreadsheet or you just put it out on a table and looked at ... Did you then look at people's current job descriptions or responsibilities and say, "Hey, this doesn't line up or this does line up." I mean, what happened practically as you began? Because you said you shuffled some things around. What exactly did that look like?
Patrick Lencioni (11:33):
Just now, Andy, before I came over, you saw me arriving. I was with a group of people on my team, one of our big project teams at work and we put the six geniuses on a whiteboard and everybody wrote down in one color what their strengths were, they're genius, the top two and then in another color what their competencies were and we looked at the board and recognized that there was nobody on that team that had invention as one of their geniuses. And they said, "That's why we need you, Pat." So even though that's a team within the organ, they said, "We need you to be a member of our team just to provide the I. " Wow. And then we looked and said, "Boy, three of us are good at this. That's going to be an area of strength. We only have one of you that does this.
(12:18):
You're going to have to be ... " And they said, "We need you to do that every day for us." So it allowed us in 10 minutes to shift responsibilities, draw me in, but just for one thing. So it had a massive impact on how we're going to organize to go forward. The results of these are just impossible not to see the ramifications. It takes 15 minutes to fill it out and about 10 minutes to debrief.
Andy Stanley (12:42):
And I would assume that when you're hiring, clearly this would be part of the hiring process, not necessarily, "Hey, we want this person or don't want this person on the team." But where we put this person on the team and specifically if they're interviewing for specific job, I mean, as you know, there's some people who just interview well. They could interview well for jobs they have no business doing or don't even have competency, but they're good interviewers.
Patrick Lencioni (13:06):
Me.
Andy Stanley (13:06):
That's you? Yeah, because
Patrick Lencioni (13:07):
You have a lot of- Oh yeah, I talked my way into a job that was miserable.
Andy Stanley (13:11):
Right. Well, you have a lot of woo. Who would not want to have you in the organization, right? So as we hire and as we look at specific candidates and specific job descriptions and what we need out of the person in that job, this would be an extraordinary, extraordinary tool. So I know this is relatively new. Have you had much experience using it on the front end?
Patrick Lencioni (13:30):
Absolutely. In fact, I mean we're literally a month into launching this tool and we just found out yesterday that this executive recruiting company bought a hundred of these things because think about it. Somebody says, "We need a new head of marketing." And you go, and kids come out of school and they go, "I want to work in marketing." And I go, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." If you're an ET, then you want to execute a marketing plan. You want to see the results and crank out leads and find out how much sales are. If you're an ID, you want to come up with the creative strategy and the plan and get involved in the message. Those are two very different things. Think about a church. Somebody says, "We need a new youth minister, a person to run youth ministry at our church." Well, did you already purchase a program and you want somebody to execute that or do you want to be an innovator and come up with one that really fits your church?
(14:26):
The person you hire is going to be very different depending on what you want, but what we do is we look at a resume and say, "Hey, this person was a youth minister before. They love Jesus. They're nice. Let's hire them." They have a degree a job.
(14:40):
It doesn't fit. So this, more than the Myers-Briggs, more than Disc, more than anything else I've ever done, actually could be used in hiring. It's like, "Hi, we're looking for somebody. We're really looking for somebody who loves tenacity and galvanizing. Do you think you do? " And this is where a person will go, "No, I'm terrible at that. Please don't hire me for that job." But I have a friend who would be great. Do you guys know anybody looking for somebody who does these things? This is an unbiased, wonderful way to help people figure out how they're going to love their work. And you could actually let somebody go and go to somebody and go, let's figure this out and go, "You know something, Bob? We really need somebody with invention and we know that's in your ... Let's help you find another role for you and people will not feel rejected or like a failure.
(15:30):
You're actually helping them find a fit. But when you say you're an ENFP and we don't want you to work here, that feels like rejection.
Andy Stanley (15:40):
Yeah. Well, that is rejection with a code.
Patrick Lencioni (15:43):
So let's talk about your type Andy.
Andy Stanley (15:45):
Well, let's do.
Patrick Lencioni (15:46):
You're top genius. You're an inventor. You are a novel thinker. You come up with new things. You have done that for a long time and I know you enjoy that. That does not burden you. Some people, if you said, Hey, your job is to come up with new ideas. We don't know. They're going to say ... I've had people say, "You can just kill me. I would hate that job." Why would you hate it? I would love it because we have different geniuses. Right.
(16:11):
And so you are an innovative person. When COVID hits, you're thinking, "What can we do to do differently?" When the world is changing, you're like, "How can we figure this out? " So you're innovative, but you also, this is where it gets really interesting. You also have really high tenacity and that's where you and I are very different. You actually want to get things done and scale and drive it across the finish line. Now I have a company with 12 people and a loose group of 40 consultants around the world. People said to me early on, Andy, "You should have a big company doing organizational health. You should grow and go public." And right away I was like, "Oh no, I would hate that. " Now I realize why. I would have to be really galvanizing and being tenacious all the time and it wasn't my strength.
(17:03):
So we partner with other organizations and we have what we call kind of a little think tank and a product development company, but that's because my genius wasn't in that area and nobody in our organization wanted to be galvanizing. So you're an IT, which I think is a fairly rare combination. An inventor who loves to finish things. And I don't know what you're like as an author, Andy, but I'm an I. I love to write books, come up with a new book idea. I write fiction, I do this, I hate finishing them. My editor, I hand her the ending and she's like, "Pat, this is a great book. Your ending sucks." I'm like, "I think it's fine. The characters die. Nobody needs to know. " And she's like, "No, you're going to sit in this room."
Andy Stanley (17:45):
Yeah. By the time they're that far into the book ... Yeah.
Patrick Lencioni (17:49):
So you could probably say, Pat, the ending sucks. Finish this book. I'm not letting you off the hook. Wow. Your lowest area is enablement, which means you're not the guy, and this is a tough one in a church world, you're not the guy that you want to say, "Andy, I just need you to do this the way I need you to do it. " And so thanks for doing that. Having a job where people came and ask you to help them on their terms every day would be misery for you. And I know that you have felt guilt in your life for that because it's like, well, nice people just say yes. Have you ever wondered, Andy, have you ever thought, how come I'm not in Guatemala building houses every day?
Andy Stanley (18:31):
No, I've never wondered that.
Patrick Lencioni (18:33):
So you're more mature than I am. For years, I thought, why am I not working at the soup kitchen?
Andy Stanley (18:39):
And God bless you. I see what you're saying. No, no, I get what you're getting at. Absolutely. No, I've learned, I overcame the guilt a long time ago because I know how to mobilize hundreds and hundreds of people to go do those things because they need to be done and I genuinely care, but my genius is more around mobilizing people around unique ways of doing things that other people have been doing for a while.
Patrick Lencioni (19:05):
And there's so many people in the world that say, "I'm not caring or I'm lazy because I don't have E and T." And it's like, no, no, no. God gave you geniuses. And what's funny is people that aren't inventors, they feel guilty. Like a guy I work with who's not as inventive as I am, but he's a good discerner said, "Why am I not able to do what Pat does?" Because he has the same Myers-Briggs talk as me. And he would say, "Do I just watch too much TV or go on social media? Is my brain dull?" And then he realized, no, I actually love galvanizing and discerning. Pat loves invention and discerning. We're just different. And now I delegate a lot of galvanizing to him and he delegates a lot of invention to me and we are both really happy, but for years I felt guilty about what I couldn't do.
Andy Stanley (19:51):
Well, this brings up another organizational dynamic that I think is super important. And this is something we've done for years because we, like most leaders, recognize strengths and weaknesses and people on the teams. And we also recognize that the org chart is not helpful in terms of getting things done most of the time. So one of my strengths is I'm able to listen to complex information and boil it down to a couple of phrases. I don't just enjoy it. It is so easy for me. I wonder why everybody else hasn't already done it already. This just is innate. So what I would do in the past is I would volunteer in some of our curriculum writing context. I wasn't an official part of the team, but I didn't go in as the boss. I went in with this ability to sit through conversations about curriculum and I could say, "Here's the bottom line.
(20:39):
Here's how you should state the bottom line. What's the next one? Okay, here's the bottom line. Here's how you should state the bottom line." So having this tool and having this template and having enough of high level organizational folks in an organization to know where their strengths and weaknesses are to get the right people in the room talking about the things where they add the most value again, you ignore who's in whose department, you're basically loaning each other your strengths, but now we know what the strengths are instead of it just being, "Oh, Pat seems to be pretty good at that. " No, no. Now I have a word for it, a name for it, and Pat's pretty good at it because he's yellow, but I know somebody who's actually green. They're really good at it. So let's make sure during this meeting, because of what we're talking about this afternoon, we need some more green in here, even if we don't have the capacity to hire somebody whose number one genius is that.
Patrick Lencioni (21:32):
Well, that's the thing. You have people in your organization who are not tapping into the genius God gave them and you can reorganize. That's what we did here. Our staff is smaller now, but people are in their genius and we're getting way more work done.
Andy Stanley (21:45):
But the thing is you don't even have to hire to it if you can just get those people for two hours of the day in your meeting to add their genius to the conversation and they can go back to their department or division. You don't have to hire a bunch of people, but having this information, I mean, this changes everything in terms of the composite of specific conversations around specific ideas and not wasting people's time because there are people they get invited to the meeting because of where they are on the org chart. They don't add anything to the meeting. They don't want to be at the meeting. They can't wait for it to be over. Meanwhile, you've got somebody that could make an extraordinary difference in that conversation, but since they're not in the department or division, they don't even get invited. But if you know everybody's genius within the organization, I mean, that's a game changer, which duh, that's why you created this tool.
(22:36):
But anyway, that's one of the things that makes me super excited about this.
Patrick Lencioni (22:40):
What's interesting, Andy, is I can't decide which part excites me more the individual part that helps a human being understand who God made them. That's got to be the best. But the other one is watching a team of people appreciate one another more. Yep. And so it's both. And I do think it's impossible when a team does this, you look at it and you read these descriptions and people come out of it, they're just like, "Oh my gosh, I've always thought I could do this well. Now I know I can. " And you go, "We're going to let you do this in the company." And when you say, "Could you spend four hours a week doing that? " They're going to go, "Are you kidding? This is going to make my job totally different." And by the way, Andy, on your situation, if somebody said, "Hey, you're really good at coming to that meeting and bringing your I and your D, you should be in charge of it.
(23:23):
" It's like, no, that doesn't mean they should be in charge of it.
Andy Stanley (23:26):
No.
Patrick Lencioni (23:27):
We do that too much. We take a great salesperson, we make them the head of sales, they stop selling their bad manager.
Andy Stanley (23:32):
Happens all the time.
Patrick Lencioni (23:34):
All the time.
Andy Stanley (23:34):
Right. But leveraging their input and expertise within a conversation or planning meeting, whole different thing.
Patrick Lencioni (23:41):
Yeah.
Andy Stanley (23:41):
All right. Well, I'd written down a bunch of questions and I think we may have already answered this one. One of the questions was, what are the benefits for a person taking the assessment? I think we've covered that, that there are multiple benefits both internally, externally, family, business, community, everywhere. But anything you'd want to add to that?
Patrick Lencioni (24:00):
Yeah. There's one thing that's interesting about this. There's a lot of people in the world that have skills and they don't want to go to work and say, "Please let me do that, " because they feel like it's selfish. They're saying, "Let me do what I like doing." And now they can go and they say, "Let me help you more. Let me contribute more to the greater good here." It's not a matter of just like, this would be fun for me, but God is giving them a talent and if we're going to be stewards of that, it's actually wrong. It's not humble. It's a violation of humility not to go to your boss or go to your work environment and say, "I can do something really well for you. " That's not selfish or braggy. No. It's actually truly humble to say, "I can help you more because I have skills that God gave me that I would love to use for you.
(24:45):
" People are like, "Oh, I shouldn't brag that I'm good." No, it's not bragging when you tell somebody, "I have a gift."
Andy Stanley (24:52):
Well, this assessment helps with that conversation because it's like other assessments. "Hey, this is an assessment I took, here's what I'm good at. Here's what I'm naturally good at. Here's what's going to make me feel like a failure and make you feel like I'm a failure. "You can go in with this information. It just changes the learning curve because you just go in with more information about the people you're working with, hiring and also what they can expect of you.
Patrick Lencioni (25:19):
Andy, over the holidays, I was with a young woman who's in college and she changed her major and it was clearly not the right major. She did this assessment and right away I was like, she was really high in enablement and I said," What about hospitality? "That's responding to the needs of others. There's people that love working in event planning or hotels or in restaurants because they're like people come to them and say," I'm having a problem. "And they light up and they're like, " Okay, I'll help you with that. "And this young woman in college said," I would love to do that. "And in a matter of 15 minutes, we had a list of companies she should go talk to. She was excited about that and she let go of the fact that what she thought she was supposed to do for all the wrong reasons didn't match.
(26:05):
So it's a great tool for figuring out what you're supposed to do in your life.
Andy Stanley (26:08):
Yeah. I think anybody listening that has a high school senior that's about to move into college or a college freshman who's trying to figure out a major, again, the applications of this just go on and on.
Patrick Lencioni (26:19):
Andy, I just hired one of my sons to work.
Andy Stanley (26:21):
That's dangerous. You should never hire someone you can't fire somebody told me, but go ahead.
Patrick Lencioni (26:26):
Exactly, exactly. I mean, it is. And see, here's the thing though, but now that I know what his working genius is, and by the way, I raised him for 21 years and I didn't know.
Andy Stanley (26:36):
Oh, you didn't know?
Patrick Lencioni (26:38):
No, because I knew what his Myers Briggs type was. I knew his disk profile was, but I didn't know the tasks. And he gets out of college where he uses it and I was like, oh, we put him on a project, this project actually, because he's really good at D and E. He contributed so much more. Had I staffed him generically for what a kid coming out of college should do, he'd have struggled. I mean, I love my son more and I can give him more feedback now because I know what his strengths are and what his weaknesses are and it doesn't feel like I'm judging as much. Now I'm still a dad, so sometimes I still judge him.
Andy Stanley (27:14):
But it makes Christmas a lot easier for sure, right?
Patrick Lencioni (27:17):
Absolutely.
Andy Stanley (27:19):
Wow. Okay. Well, before we wrap up, any last thing you'd just like to say and just any final thoughts on this is such a great tool.
Patrick Lencioni (27:26):
I think that going to somebody and saying, I want you to know yourself well, whether they're your child or your friend or your parents who are changing their jobs or retiring, it's like this would be a great time for you to understand the geniuses you have and lean into those because whether you're volunteering or running your house or hiring people in your company or trying to choose a career, this can make all the difference. And if you're 65 years old and you're thinking, "What am I going to do when I retire?" Say, "Well, dad, you're really good at these things. Don't just go do the same things all your friends did. Do the things that God put you on earth to do. " And it's such a joy to watch somebody come alive because they finally understand what those gifts are.
Andy Stanley (28:09):
That is absolutely the case. And you know what? Most of our podcast listeners that have any kind of leadership responsibilities have experienced that. They didn't have a tool. They couldn't tell you exactly why, but any of us who have seen somebody who it looked like and they felt like they were failing and we adjusted their department or adjusted their responsibilities and they came alive and many of us have had that awful thought of, oh no, I almost let them go. But I almost let them go because I just didn't just have them in the wrong seat on the bus. I was expecting a genius they didn't have and they were never going to have. So again, the applications of this just go on and on and on. So we got to wrap this up. Pat, again, thank you so much. I can't wait for our next conversation.
(28:51):
We need to come back and talk about some of these random things that we start off talking about, maybe just do a kitchen sink podcast where we just go topic to topic. In fact, everybody in the room, they're shaking their heads, yes. I don't know if they think we would just get in trouble doing that or they would enjoy that, but we should do that at some point.
Patrick Lencioni (29:08):
But we can always edit.
Andy Stanley (29:09):
Yeah, that's true. We can always edit. Anyway, for our podcast listeners, just go to workinggenius.com, workinggenius.com. Also, make sure you go by andystanley.com where you can download the leadership podcast application guide that goes with today's content because one of the things you may want to do is before you roll this assessment out, even with two or three people on your leadership team or your whole company, is to let them watch, especially maybe the first part of this conversation or maybe both parts so they'll be motivated not only to take the assessment but to have some ideas about how to use it in their department. That's why we do the leadership guide. Anyway, as always, thanks so much for listening and we will look forward to having you next time on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.